Also why are people complaining about āSpamā here? This topic is supposed to keep everything in one placeā¦isnāt that what they wanted?
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(not really tho)
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It was never about spam, they just want no one to talk about LGBT things at all, so they donāt have to think about it
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As always, Iām going to say that if they actually follow up on their statements with any further LGBT representation Iād prefer if they kept with the upright moral heroes. As in not morally questionable people like: Moira, who doesnāt let ethics get in the way of her secretive experiments (this is a huge problem because a real world scientist famous for not letting ethics get in his way and who conducted secretive experiments? Mengele); Doomfist, who wants to throw the world into chaos and start a new world-wide war because he thinks it will somehow help humanity; Roadhog, who has a list of felonies associated with him and is noted everywhere as a ruthless killer; and Junkrat, who is mentally unsound and described as a freak (in addition to committing the many felonies himself). These would all play into 80+ year old negative media stereotypes of LGBT people as villainous people lacking in ethics and/or morals, as well as some of the very arguments others have tried to use to argue against LGBT people as a whole in other threads.
I get that the idea of having any of these as representation is fun because theyāre villain protagonists whose points of view we can understand, but they are still villains and would serve to confirm things that I have seen homophobes say against LGBT people on these very forums. Not to mention how would they even go about balancing the gay hero to the gay villain without risking representing an entire subsection of the community with only a villain? Having enough characters be LGBT to ābalanceā it in any way would have huge blow back from the rest of the Overwatch community as we have seen time and time again in other threads, as would confirming any fan ships. How would they do that without having shippers who ship any other ship not get up in arms over wanting their ship made canon?
Further to the point of the thread, I hope that the next LGBT hero is revealed soon but that they keep with the same direction they went with Tracer; as in refuting the old stereotypes of us being evil and instead make our future representation as heroic as straight representation has always been. So characters like Reinhardt, Lucio, D.Va, Mercy, and Brigitte (from what little we know of them) would be very good choices to uphold this trend.
To be clear Iām not attacking anyone nor am I saying people are wrong for wanting to see certain characters as gay. I, personally, donāt headcanon any of the characters Iāve listed as straight. But I keep my personal headcanons very separate from what I actually would like to see made canon because I am very aware of the statements the choice can and will send.
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Ah. From requesting representation to demanding propaganda, nice.
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Thatās just disrespectful and kind of rude to be honest. How is it propaganda? Isnāt there a nicer way to raise your concerns?
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I mean, if you want to paint something in the best way possible, scheming and plannibg, just to make sure that there is one certain way itās acceptedā¦![:thinking:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=5" ":thinking:")
I donāt know why do I need to explain this, it is so plain to see. Is this supposed to be representation or rather commercial/ propaganda?
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Props to you OP, really, thank you a lot for this. Iām really, really grateful you did this. I said it twice yesterday in two of these topics that were poppin up so g#ddamn frequently. Thanks OP, youāve been way better that the mods.
I wonāt butt in anymore, thanks a lot OP!
Iād prefer to have some more fleshed out lore and backstory to a character rather than knowing the genital preference of them
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Arguably all media is propaganda because all media is informed by and in reaction to the political thoughts and ideas of the time and culture it was created in. Like or or not, all choices made within media end up with the potential to be called āpropaganda,ā and that would go for making all the characters straight just as much as it would making some of them LGBT. Overwatch is already a politically-informed game; the Omnics themselves are a stand in for multiple minorities. Anti-Omnic stances are treated as racist is within the lore. To say that wanting to not perpetuate negative stereotypes about the LGBT community is wanting āpropagandaā is ignoring that there already is āpropagandaā in the lore.
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Representation is something different, isnāt it?
You are here like āMake a hero gay! But also it has to be another GOOD character!ā
So yeah, this is representation with a cute little cherry on top.
And in many posts I say ādo not bring sexuality into this game.ā This here is one of the reasons why.
You want representation of sexuality so much in a game with both heroes AND villainsā¦If you canāt accept sexual minority villain after a gay hero, the gameās mascot, already being in a game, thatās sad. And just let me tell you, your comment makes a way worse impression on me than gay Moira or Junkrat.
Not beneath heroes, not above villains.
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I do want to remind people that āpropagandaā has a negative connotation (and denotation). LGBT representation is not propaganda.
That being said, the main mascot of OW is gay so imo I think having an LGBT hero on the āvillaināsā side is acceptable. Itās a little different when your only gay in something is a harmful stereotype on an antagonist.
I think weāre all in agreement that the game is lore-starved in general.
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Then you might also want to remind everyone what representation is. So some people wonāt come here asking for propaganda. ![:blush:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/blush.png?v=5" ":blush:")
Interesting that my megathread which was made to consolidate āāāspamā"" was mass flagged for spam and hidden. Which proved one of my points I guess
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This is not the place for this stuff. Itās a game and itās to be enjoyed by all, we donāt need special groups.
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This isnāt a super secret club. The topic falls under TOS, so no worries.
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So if I created a forum post for straight people, that would not bother you? Lets be realā¦ For one I donāt see my fellow players as anything other than what they are, fellow players and sometimes new friends. I could care less what color, race, gender etc. I really enjoy the people I play with because we enjoy the game and have no agenda.
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Itās clearly a reaction out of spite, but nothing on the internet bothers me personally.
Iām glad you have such a positive experience. Same
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Agreed on the aspect of wanting more lore, and Iāll go on to add that regardless of who the choice is I would like it to be handled well and tactfully, similar to how us being shown Tracerās relationship with Emily was handled well and tactfully.
See my first post here for why I donāt agree with your opinion regarding a gay villain being ok. I would like to add that I am professionally trained in media output, have been paid for my role in media output, and am very aware of the role media plays in public perception. It is true that representation of minorities does not mean propaganda, but the truth of the matter is that it always is in some way even if the intent of propaganda was not consciously there.
In any case, what kind of propaganda am I promoting? Propaganda is information, possibly but not always of a biased nature, used to push a certain goal or idea. So what is my bias and goal? A bias towards gays being heroic? A bias towards gays being positive role models? A goal of wanting gays to not be villains like we have a long history of being depicted as?
Why is that a worse thing than wanting a gay villain to even out the hero-villain scale? Wouldnāt a 1:1 ratio of gay villain to gay hero be tokenistic while also risking representing an entire section of the LGBT community with only a villain? How would that not be āpropagandaā against that part of the community?
And again, like it or not, all media can be argued as propaganda because all media reflects, contains, and pushes the goals and ideas of its creators. You cannot divide a piece of media from the political climate of its time and its creators because of how interwoven those politics always are with said piece of media. Propaganda is not even inherently a bad thing - for example, Dr. Seussās anti-Hitler/anti-America First art is just as much propaganda as his anti-Japanese art is. It matters much more what is being argued for or against.
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Overwatch doesnāt āneedā LGBT representation because it has it in the form of Tracer. There doesnāt need to be a million threads on the topic.
I strongly feel like people are doing this just to get a rise.
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