Let's see how many top 500s/GMs got stuck in 3900

they are getting top500 players at 3900 because the mmr did not change, so they lose maybe 10sr for a loss and win 35+.


I’ll be hardstuck at 3900 for forever since I just don’t care enough to do more than the placements. :smiley:


We know quite a lot about the matchmaking system, actually. Not everything, of course, but it’s not all that secret, it’s just that what we’ve been told is broken up into bits and pieces explained here and there over the years. Most people don’t bother to read it, even though the collected information has been put together into a continuously updated document.

But yes, we do know that they try to balance games so that each team has an equal chance of winning. That’s called making a fair match, when you have two teams of equal average skill.

For a variety of reasons, it isn’t always successful, and even when it is successful, hero choices, communication issues, or even differences in map familiarity can cause a game to feel very one-sided.

People attribute this to the matchmaker specifically persecuting them as individuals or specifically favoring other individuals through some conspiratorial hidden criteria, but honestly… it’s just variance. The matchmaker has no way to know who’s better at Hanamura and who’s better at Busan, who’s better at Mercy and who’s better at Lucio … it could, in a more complex system, but it doesn’t currently score players per-map or per-hero.

Even with the most fine-tuned of systems, the game has no way to know if your main tank is in top shape, just got home from an exhausting day of work, or is on a day off and just smoked a bowl of the high-grade stuff.

It’s really just not realistic to expect a close match every time, not even when the matchmaker does its job as perfectly as possible. That, however, is the ideal so many people rate it against, but of course it falls short of achieving the impossible.

Also, I don’t know if you saw it but Kaawumba pointed out the current edition of the document:


Yes. I’m supposed to. However, the system is rigged so new accounts got placed in higher levels easier. I’ve seen pros/streamers game that they are not doing anything. The team carried the heck out. Does that mean those streamers are way better than their teammates? No, and they got sr anyway.

After a winning streak you’ll see. Yea you carried the team for the last three games using dps. In the forth game you couldn’t even pick a dps cause I’ll guarantee you at least three dps have chosen already. Does that mean your skill suddenly worse in the forth game? No. In fact you may be even better after all the warm up.

LOL thanks. Maybe he works for Bliz or he’s papa Jeff himself I don’t know. I’m open to discussion.

So, rigged…

Good points. I get it. There is no perfect system, but I’m just not happy that OW doesn’t even consider changing it.

Just throw out some ideas on the top of my head:

  • Role Queue kind of helps. Ok there is no perfect match, but could you decrease the wait time for role queue as dps? 10+ minutes is a freaking joke. Why would l wait for 10 minutes for a 20 minutes game where the balance is trash anyway?

  • Sr based on INDIVIDUAL performance. You perform well, as dps, healer, tank, you get more sr. If you carried and the team still lost, you lost less sr OR gain like 5 srs.

  • Ban/Pick system in pros or high level games, but balance heroes based on the major player base. Stop over buff or over nerf heroes, and listen to our feedback. Thus further spread out the roles. If supports and tanks are fun, I’ll pick them instead of dps every game.

Please first learn something about placing new account. They are not being placed higher because system is rigged. They are being placed because system doesnt really count with people making alt accounts so everyone starts in 2350 in first placement match. Even player with bronze skill 500. Placement system wasnt designed for smurfing or making alts, because its not possible to place properly if you are too low or too high with skill on new alt.

And having only 5 placement games instead of 10 was one of the worst ideas blizz had, because system sometimes had issues to place people properly with even 10 initial placement games.

I don’t care about games during placement. I care about levels after placement.

So the system is not working as intended (trash)?

I believe five matches are for role queue. Well you’re locked in your role and it should be able to tell what levels you are after five matches. Like you said, the system will try to place you in different levels and see how you perform.

But all you said has nothing to do with my statement - new accounts are placed in higher levels easily.

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It is, but it was not intended for people placing on smurfs :slight_smile:

Because of how placement works, win/loss Is highly valued with few games after placement more than skill of the player. That is big issue.

Yes and I really dont understand why they changed it to 5, because even in open queue where you still have 10 is initial placement pretty wild.

I would like to see 20 placement games on first comp season, then 5 placements every season.

Well yes, just keep in mind its not because of skill of players. It is because of bad placement design.

I wouldn’t call alt accounts smurfs, and I believe you’re agreeing with me.

New accounts can be placed in higher levels easier. Due to the mmr system, the player will stay in that level because if he’s not performing well, his teammate will back him up.

It shouldn’t be. Period. SR should be calculated based on INDIVIDUAL performance.

I kind of get what you mean. More placement matches will result in a more accurate level placement.

At the end of the day, placements are just smaller portions of the overall games you’ll play in a season. If the system is rigged, those placements are not as important as later games.

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This is a problem, yes. Having more variety of tank and support heroes would help – many people focus on their favorite heroes, rather than any particular role.

A much bigger impact, IMO, would be if you got a priority-queue for some number of games in the longest queue after some number of games in the shortest queue. (in NA, that almost always means play tank to get priority queue for damage, but I’ve been told support is more popular than damage in south america, so it would be different there).

They have finally implemented priority queue at all, so I’m hopeful this is coming. Priority queue for cancelled games is already a huge improvement on the worst-case scenario for DPS queues.

This already exists in Platinum and below, although it’s much too small of a modifier to ever give you SR gain for a lost game. It was a stronger factor earlier in Overwatch.

It’s not good for it to be too strong of a factor because the connection between raw stats and contributing to chances of victory isn’t entirely clear. For example, a healer can get huge healing numbers if their team is bad at positioning and the enemy team is bad at securing kills – or the same player can get terrible numbers because their team is simply avoiding most of the damage; a damage dealer can get huge trash-damage numbers that contribute mostly to enemy support ults; a tank can block tons of damage by standing with a shield in the choke.

It’s also possible to incentivize behavior that effectively throws the game, especially at high ranks where ult-economy and point-management are critical so e.g. dying on the cart or jumping of a cliff to respawn with your team, or avoiding trash damage when you already have ult are winning strategy but directly detrimental to your personal stats.

Anyway, whether you agree with this evaluation or not, the devs have already experimented with personal performance adjustments, and decide they work better when small and limited to lower ranks.

Common requests that have been discussed extensively elsewhere, but don’t really have much to do with matchmaking. I was hoping that testing changes on the live server would encourage smaller, more frequent balance changes but the Genji situation makes me doubtful.

Well yes, but both face same problems with placements. For example my Masters friend placed mid diamond and because of after placement bonus ended in 2700 effectively smurfing 1000 SR below his elo. Just one example. He was trying to have alt acc but ended as smurf. Same as if for example Samito will create alt account. New account cannot even be probably placed in masters and thats like 1000 SR below his elo. So even if he is creating “alt account”, he will be smurfing.

Not exactly. It is not because of MMR. It is because win/loss is highly valued and even if you play like god, you can lose first two after placement games and its easy -200 SR. After placement SR bonus can really screw you up or help you to be overplaced a lot. Even if you play terrible. Result from first placement +few games after is very luck based honestly. If you take Bronze player who is 500 bronze on main, he can be lucky and win 3 placement games and he will place easy in gold with bronze skill, 1 more lucky game and BOOM, he is plat. He will eventualy of course drop because of skill, but he will damage a lot of games. Thats why players from very low elos should not buy new alts, just like players should not smurf. Because both parties will damage a lot of games.

I agree, performance should be priority, win/loss secondary, but thats not the case sadly.

Yes, I think so. Because in old open queue you could actualy place lower and higher on new accounts than in current 5 placement game system, and they doubled after placement bonus, which really didnt help.

System is not rigged, it just wasnt build for so many alt and smurf accounts. Climbing to higher elo is always grind unless you smurf and I think it should be like that. But I agree it is sometimes frustrating that you have to play bonus games which will make it more time consuming grind.

If you have a 50% winrate it means you are at the rank you deserve this does not mean after 10 games you need around 100 games for this to work if you are at 55% you deserve a rank that is a little higher.

If you climb from plat- diamond with a 55% winrate once you are diamond your winrate will go back to 50% or lower because you are not good enough for it or you are not playing as good as you was before.

There is a reason why when a GM smurfs he has a 90% winrate and when a master smurfs in plat he has a 70% winrate and you say you cant carry? then you dont deserve to be in a higher rank because every diamond player unless they have been boosted or pocket a real smurf has got there from carrying some games in one way or another does not have to be big just big enough to have more wins then you lose.

Then there is the other thing you might be great at winning games and have a 55-60% winrate but only gain 17 sr per win that is because you need to work on your mechanical skill in the game it means your game sense is there but you need to work on getting better at aiming cooldown management not to die as much do more healing etc…

The matchmaker works and the only people who i would say can really complain about elo hell are 3700-3900 master elo because that is where the skill difference is very different and there is no way to hard carry in that rank consistantly without having a duo or stack.

There is a reason why its easier to climb on tank with a low winrate and that is because the queue time is shorter and they can do the 100 games faster than a dps can.

I finished 4512 last season playing Bap.
I am now 18 games into my season with a 33% wr, and am 3888, and haven’t had Orisa Sigma once in 18 games. Not surprised I’m losing, tanks are hard throwing every game masters is pure luck.


masters is ye but it always has been you need to stack.

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Like if I have a 40% wr I would be climbing though, that’s how f’d this season is. Tbh I’m just not gonna bother, that climb out of 3900 the first time I did it in season 16 was the HARDEST thing I’ve ever had to do on Overwatch. Open comp only this season.

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Well bap is not very good atm when its nano blade meta too

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Genji needs about 3 nerfs man, its ridiculous how busted this hero is now. And Bap is great, when they aren’t abusing a genji pick. My main issue has literally been tanks every game, not picking a good tank line up and just getting rolled.

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This I absolutely agree with. 10 games for a role could have made MM so much better.

Playing a minimum of 30 games total for all roles really isn’t a big deal, and I don’t recall anyone ever stating otherwise.

It’s a flabbergasting decision.



Like none?

Yeah, lets not forget why it was removed. Because you perform like trash compared to players who perform well (Flower, Fleta etc etc) so after some point you gain 5sr even if you annihilate enemy team