Let's Revisit the Absurdity of "Hide and Rez"

[Megadodo-11847]

The strategy would exist so long as Resurrect, as a whole, exists. The only way to get rid of the strategy is to get rid of Resurrect. Now, since we know that they aren’t going to be doing that anytime soon, the next best thing after that is to advocate for a better version of Resurrect. In other words, one that works as an ultimate.

In my opinion (though I dont feel rez needs any improvement), an ability does not necessarily need to be turned into an ultimate to be improved.

Some players might (for example, one of many) feel that if the casting time were reduced by half while the cooldown would be increased by half again, that such changes would be an improvement.

[Justin-17714]

You can still let your teammate intentionally die to Res.

they didn’t want you letting your whole team die intentionally to rez. you can let your teammate die to rez. but you cant actively encourage “go die on the point” or just intentionally let your team get wiped for value anymore. THAT is what they wanted gone. and it is.

[Megadodo-11847]

no it wont though because you cant hide and let your team intentionally die to get mass rez off anymore. they want mercy to let her team die to get a rez off.

It already works like that: your healing often is so bad, that it’s better to let teammate die and resurrect them, than trying to heal them.

Can’t heal tank fast enough? Let them die.

Personally, I find this to be very poor Mercy play - a player problem, not a Mercy problem

[Cleopatra-21937]

Personally, I find this to be very poor Mercy play - a player problem, not a Mercy problem

It’s called “math”. You got Reinhardt badly hurt, with only 50 hp left, and broken shield. Trying to heal him will take 450/50= 9 s of healing only Reinhardt, without healing anyone else(which also need healing). Allowing him to die and resurrecting takes ~2 s, while returns you to healing everyone else 7 s faster, and restores his shield as well.

Sometimes for many players to be healed, one has to die.

[Megadodo-11847]

The old adage “pick your poison” seems to apply here

My problem is that Mercys are being blamed for having to chose one in the first place.

the comparison here that I was replying to was between complaining about both Zen and Mercy

P1: “I dislike Mercy’s beams, Zen has no beams to give him away”

P2: “Then pick Zen instead of Mercy”

P1: “Oh no, his healing is even weaker than Mercy’s”

P2: “Pick your poison”

[Justin-17714]

Then make it so she didn’t have to tell them to die on point or let them die to get off a Rez?

so now you are grasping at straws after calling me a liar, rather than apologizing for false accusations?

so long as mass resurrect existed the strategy did. they didn’t want the strategy to exist in any form so the only way was to remove mass rez.

[MegaLopunny-11165]

Feel like this topic is beating a dead horse. It doesn’t really go anywhere and has been explored to its fullest. And at its fullest it doesn’t justify any kind of revert with how Mercy is doing now despite people’s dislike of her current form.

[N7Warrior-1327]

Did they say they didnt want it in their game in any iteration? No. They. Did. Not.

Your interpretation of their words is not the same as mine. But don’t act like it’s the only way to interpret it.
Mine is just as valid because they did. Not. Say. It.

[Sinzh-1450]

it’s still regarding Hide and Ress and the ultimate that comes with it.

The manner in which you look at it matters otherwise all the soldier 76 threads would have been locked. They weren’t. Moved to the story discussion, but not locked.
This thread was opened again because it’s not that mass rez is being looked at at all that matters, but how you look at it. Disagree or not with the premise. But it’s still not the same as :
Saying valk is bad
Looking at other hide and ult strats in the game
Saying chain beams is worse than rez
Disagreeing with cooldown rez

And so on. Said subjects can come up in the flow of a discussion, but it’s perfectly fair to want to explore a specific issue further. That’s not spam

Exactly.

Dissecting further into all of the various issues of Mercy’s rework and how it suffers in comparison to the old Mercy (mass-rez-but-no-invuln-Mercy, and there isn’t just one problem) isn’t spamming.

Even if there is a new popular thread every week, that isn’t spam. It’s new but related discourse on an unresolved issue.

[Justin-17714]

Did they say they didnt want it in their game in any iteration?

“we don’t want mercy telling her teammates to die, or letting them die intentionally” says they don’t want it.

they did say it. you just try to twist what they said to mean something else.

say what you want, but if blizzard wanted mass rez and hide and rez to stay a strategy, they wouldn’t have taken away the ability to do it.

[Megadodo-11847]

Pick your poison or pros and cons. I prefer pros and cons. It implies thought

If one complains that character x doesnt have weakness a than character y has, and it is then reminded that they can simply select character x instead of character y, and then replies that character z has another weakness – then to me, it is time to pick your poison, if one wishes to play the game at all.

Every character has weaknesses, and every character has strengths

[Cleopatra-21937]

I already explained, that I picked specific playstyle to negate that weakness.

[N7Warrior-1327]

you got a bunch of points out of it and No one could say you weren’t doing anything.

This is my issue. Mass rez rewarded mercys who were subpar. How is that fair? If you were a good healer on mercy and never needed to rez, your rez stats are lower than a mercy who let her team die frequently. So she hains more Sr for being bad than the god mercy. That’s a reward problem tho. Not mechanic

[Megadodo-11847]

I already explained, that I picked specific playstyle to negate that weakness.

I in turn explained that if a player doesnt like beams giving away their character’s position, like Zen, said player can always choose to pick another character, like Zen

[Jimin-21586]

In my opinion (though I dont feel rez needs any improvement), an ability does not necessarily need to be turned into an ultimate to be improved.

What I’m saying is that if “Hide n Res” is the problem they were trying to tackle, compared to ability or ultimate, it’s better of as an ultimate. This is because it’s less rewarding to hide when Res is an ultimate and it’s not incentivised when Res is an ultimate.

Some players might (for example, one of many) feel that if the casting time were reduced by half while the cooldown would be increased by half again, that such changes would be an improvement.

I disagree with this opinion and do not intend to argue about this opinion. Best kept to yourself if I’m being honest.

they didn’t want you letting your whole team die intentionally to rez.

So hiding is fine as long as it’s just for you to Res one person (even though it’s more rewarding and more tedious for the enemy to deal with)? I don’t know about you but I sincerely doubt that their problem was the amount of players being ressed by the strategy. They’ve made it clear on multiple accounts that they simply don’t want such a mindset as it goes against the existence of a main healer.

rez. you can let your teammate die to rez. but you cant actively encourage “go die on the point” or just intentionally let your team get wiped for value anymore. THAT is what they wanted gone. and it is.

On the contrary, this still happens. I’ve seen it happen quite a lot in my comp games. Mercy’s would tell one of their teammates who are low to die during a team fight so they can get ressed again and stall the objective. This specific strategy is commonly used on Temple of Anubis. This and, what you’re highlighting as the issue is not what Blizzard sees as the issue. Again, they’ve made it clear that the issue they have is with the mindset of “Hide n Res”.

[N7Warrior-1327]

They said they to address it. So it’s the strat they didn’t like. They triedcast time for example. Wouldn’t have happened if they were against the mechanic. I say mechanic isn’t the issue . Strat is. You’re just mad because my interpretation doesn’t align with yours. But they. Did. not. Say . It.

[Justin-17714]

I don’t know about you but I sincerely doubt that their problem was the amount of players being ressed by the strategy.

they didn’t want to reward you for intentionally letting your team die. which was a viable strategy.

it is not viable to intentionally let your teammates die anymore. there is no situation where it is better to let them die than to heal them. the problem is gone.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Mercy’s would tell one of their teammates who are low to die during a teammate so they can get ressed again and stall the objective.

Of course it will continue to happen. Why try to outheal extreme damage with your 50 hps, when you can resurrect teammate back with better results? Only question is if you are sneaky enough to not get caught, while doing it.

Mercy never had E ability to burst heal, resurrect was used as one.

[Justin-17714]

So it’s the strat they didn’t like.

which will exist so long as mass rez does. the way to get rid of it is to get rid of mass rez.

im done talking to you now. ive made my point, youre just being intentionally blind. which is chosen ignorance on your part and no skin off my back.

im not mad at all. im just trying to explain it in a way you will understand, but now it is obvious you are plugging fingers in your ears going “lalalallalallalalalalala I cant hear you” so I will move on.

[Jimin-21586]

they didn’t want to reward you for intentionally letting your team die. which was a viable strategy.

I disagree completely. It was a garbage strategy that, in most cases, just gave the enemy team the chance to wipe your team again.

it is not viable to intentionally let your teammates die anymore.

I’ve just stated a situation. Stalling or reviving teammates who were already going to die instead of healing them which is what a main healer should be doing. Again, the amount of people getting ressed by the strategy was not the issue. The mindset was. Again, this issue that they want to get rid of just got worse after the rework and the only way to fix this issue is to delete Resurrect entirely. Again, Blizzard are most likely never going to ever delete one of the most well-known, iconic abilities in the game just because they don’t like a strategy so the best thing would be to go for the second best option, a Resurrect that functions as an ultimate.