lol, good point 
Hog was always considered a tank, and tanks have historically done a lot of damage, but low Damage Per Second. These are two different things.
But you’ve fundamentally displayed your misunderstanding of tanks. A tank NEEDS damage because they’re supposed to force enemies into dealing with them. If a tank has a lot of health, but no damage, they’re a minor inconvenience.
Tbh, maybe they should just nerf the counters to Supports.
Then tell them, they just gotta git gud, and use more teamwork.
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The Support Role isn’t going to magically become more popular by spamming “git gud” at them.
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Off-tank. Not a main tank. He was picked as a side kick when there was 2-2-2 in a team. He had the one shot combo cuz of it.
They forgot to remove it in 1-2-2 OW2.
I know how Tank works in this game… it’s not like in a MMO i know. But if there ain’t supposed to be any kind of boundries, why not just make Tanks fully fledged power houses? Yes… enough to compete with DPS role. Same goes for Support role?
Point is… obviously there’s a design philosophy here that Tanks and Healers are supposed to do less in that field but it’s not properly defined.
So one match you see a Zarya or Sigma Shattering the roof in a long match.
Other matches you see Specifically Moira as support shattering the roof.
It’s just inconsistent. Random elements in a wannabe competitive game.
Where was the “in trade” part?
you mean like, sleepdart/nade, or mercy movement, or baps self heal/lamp/super jump, or kirko bell and teleport, or zen kick, the list goes on. They have their abilities that work to peel/get away/survive/just straight up kill the enemy; they dont need tank abilities, because thats game breaking, why play any other character when you can just pick a support and do everything.
This is a skill issue, supports need to stop complaining and start learning how to get value on the character. Ignore the trolls blaming you, your the easiest to blame, but honestly i dont even look at supports anymore when it comes to stats, most of yall are so bad you dont understand what your doing wrong, and dont even go looking for the right way to play, jsut complain about the role or other people for your problems.
The fact that tanks mitigate this is part of “the support problem”
Is an off-tank a tank? Are off tanks suddenly not tanks? What does Off tank even mean? To me, it means “Tank meant to complement and synergize with the main tank”. That implies that the off tank will have to tank, too.
You are not acting like it. Your main argument hinges on Roadhog not being a tank because he’s an off tank, right? I know what you think your point is: that Roadhog was an ‘off’ tank and that means he should have been adjusted to be a ‘main’ tank for 5v5.
You haven’t said how they’d do this, but lets ignore that for a moment.
You’re ignoring the fact that Off TANKS still need to TANK for the team, and that every off TANK are already capable of tanking.
You also underestimate the fact that Hog’s style of tanking has been in games for years. He’s what’s known as a “Damage Tank”. He deals damage to force enemies to engage with him, or die. His extra health is what enables him to then tank for his team.
People call him a fat DPS, but really thats incorrect. He doesn’t focus on doing damage per second, he focuses on doing raw damage.
In short, I don’t think you know as much about design philosophy as you think you do.
Do you think movement the answer, or defense ability? I think defense ability would be better; who wants to fight an Ana with mobility?
Tbh, given how Ramattra has two slows, and how evading a Winston is a question of movement speed.
I’m kinda leaning into RobotWizard’s idea that they will probably just increase the base movement speed on Supports from 5.5m/s, to 6.0m/s, or 6.5m/s, or 7.0m/s.
Which also allows them to make Bastion/Doom Ults land faster without singling out Ana/Zen.
Also a simple numbers tweak is a lot easier to just throw into the game, after they get that “rapid numeric balance changes” system online.
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Yes and no. Doomfist was not a Tank but became Tank kind of way. He was inbetween a tank and an assassin. 2 roles in one. More so than Reinhart and Orisa for example.
Hog is now a Tank. Answer this then. Does Hog NEED to have 1shot in any of his abilities in his kit? Imagine if Orisas spear did a one-shot… no questions asked.
Yup.
If you define Tanking in Overwatch as 2 things, with an third extra thing.
Tanking in Overwatch
- Give their team a positioning advantage
- Either by making it safer for a teammate to stand in a desirable location.
- Or making it less safe for an enemy to stand on a desirable location.
- Stand on Objectives real well, to Capture or Prevent Capture
- Block or Shut down enemy Ultimates
Hog does #1 and #3 with his HookKillCombo. And if anything, the Hook itself is secondary, to the zoning provided by the Threat of the Hook.
If you take the Threat out, then he’d be really bad at zoning enemy positioning.
Heck, if anything, Korean Contenders is starting to see a lot more Roadhog comps.
Absolutely for various reasons.
1.) You guys misunderstand what a “one shot” is. Often times, you guys say his hook+shoot+melee is a “one shot” and it makes conversations hard.
2.) In terms of ACTUAL one shots, his M1 requires that level of raw power in order to make him threatening. If he didn’t have that kind of power, he would be completely ineffective.
3.) You have to be hugging Roadhog for him to one shot you. If you’re struggling that bad against him, pick a long range hero like Soldier, Echo, Widow, Soujorn. Or a more mobile hero like Tracer, Genji, and the like.
For all of these reasons, I’d say he needs whatever “one shot” he has.
Yea but what type of PvP interaction does a 1hook 1-shot give in a so called competitive scene?
I’m really thinking what type of sense it would add to any clash inside a match.
In what way does saying “one-shot hook combination is bad” make conversation hard?
I personally don’t see sense in instantly dying to a hook by a Tank.
Like Hook + M1 = 10% hp left is a better outcome imo.
so the kill combo should be Hook + M1 + Melee.
Not Hook + M1. Because that’s just ridiculous…
You’re saying that like it’s not possible for the Hooked player’s teammates to peel against a hook.
No, I said “calling his combo a ‘one shot’ makes conversations hard because you’re calling three hits a ‘one shot’”. If you don’t know why that would make a conversation hard to have, then I don’t know what to tell you.
You are quite literally saying “I’m dying to a tank, and that shouldn’t be. I should live. Nerf roadhog”.
I’m saying why does it kill you to begin with… Like imagine getting randomly hooked and M1’ned. You just die and your healer even had his aim focused on you… but you just die cuz it’s just how the game is designed… Yeah… shrug… deal with it… fine.
It’s just senseless… there’s 4 other players in the team. any of the dps can easily assist their tank to get a kill even if it didnt one shot. but there should be a window for healers to be able to save to keep the game competitive and interactive. It’s a team based game. WTF kind of purpose does a 1 shot serve by a basic ability?
You need to understand how weird this statement is. Should I answer it literally? Well:
Its a FPS where the objective is to kill the enemy. That’s why it kills you.
Or, do you mean more in a game design philosophy sense? Well:
Tanks need to be threatening on the field. If the hook+shot combo can’t kill you, then what’s the point? It would be entirely cosmetic and heroes know that its not that big a deal. Tracer would be hooked, shot, and melee’d by hog, and then she’d recall and get all of her health back.
Genji would dash away.
Reaper would wraith form away.
Multiple supports would straight up be able to flee. How is Hog threatening when his hook amounts to little more than a handshake?
What do you mean “why does it kill you”?
Yes. You die because he killed you. You got hooked and killed because this game is a shooter. Alternatively, go Lucio and boop him before he can shoot your teammate. You’ll mess his shot up and save your teammate. Zarya bubbles do this too, and Kiriko’s suzu or however its spelled.
See, this is what I mean. You are not being one shot. His hook does not one shot you. Hog needs to perform a relatively strict combo, and if you don’t believe me, lets see you do some hook combos. We’ll see how many kills you get.
See here’s the issue… You have created a scenario… a premise that you’re using to break down my argument. You’re saying if Road Hog doesn’t kill in that combo, he will be useless. So YOU claim… that Hog MUST have a one-combo kill.
Which means if I say the opposite, i would make as much of a relevant case as you right?
I’m just asking… what would happen if it did 90% dmg and left the target weak for a potential follow-up last hit by himself or some other ally? Or even a save by your own healer using an ult to quickly catch up to u and actually come in time to save.
In the 1-combo kill situation it negates any kind of PVP interaction with the team and the other opponents… it becomes a 1v1 in a team-based game.
I don’t firmly believe Supports need extra stuff added to their kits. Even Ana and Zen.
The DPS role passive is overkill with some of the heroes. Get rid of that and revert the nerfs done to Genji. It also will even Reaper out more.
Tanks aren’t getting knocked around like they were in OW1. Removing the knockback reduction will make it so the devs aren’t running around re-tweaking everything to help Support survive. Which really partially is on our community. But take Monkey for example, what are they going to do, nerf his Jump or buff Supports individually? Both perhaps? Why go through all that without first seeing how removing the passive will fair? Most tanks already feel pretty good as is anyway. DF obviously needs buffs. JQ needs a tweak or two. Deal with that separately.
30% ult charge. This just keeps the domino effect of hard counter a viable option, when they were trying to limit that philosophy. Now it’s encouraged.
I think this view of Supports has become over-complicated and in some ways needlessly. Partially because of development. The other half because of the community as a whole.