Name one sport that has a Matchmaker at all.
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This is 100% incorrect. That’s like saying that the only thing that counts in basketball is how to win a game. And the season and the way the playoffs work should be ignored by the teams.
The way the season work may have little persuasion towards the basketball teams, but nevertheless, they are still made aware of how it works.
well, the last place team of the NFL gets first round draft picks. So if you’re not going to make the playoffs, it’s better to loose as many games as possible.
if this information was private, then there could be room for exploitation. but since the rule is public, everyone has a fair shot at exploitive behavior so that makes it fair.
Yes and no. The equations are all there but in terms of what stats are used they only give examples such as number of kills and number of deaths but that’s about it. Being vague in this respect is probably for a few reasons:
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The stats which are used depend on the game (TrueSkill2 is used for many games, not just Halo 5 and Gears of War 4). So in a paper about TrueSkill2 there’s not real reason to go in to all the details of one specific game.
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They may not want players to be able to manipulate their ranking via stat padding.
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It’s already a long paper and that sort of detail is superfluous. You can understand TrueSkill2 without it.
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It’s pretty clear that they try to model certain probability distributions for certain stats which allow them to predict match outcomes. Because they want to predict match outcomes the players really should just focus on winning to get the most out of the system.
Point 4 applies to Overwatch as well. People should focus more on learning what it takes to win a match than learning how MMR is actually calculated.
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well then there’s your answer. you said Halo 5 had whiners despite a public MMR formula, but you lied, they don’t have a public MMR formula
bottom line, the MMR formula is not 100% transparent.
When I ask for Overwatch’s MMR formula to be published. I’m asking for 100% transparency.
Sorry, I edited my post.
I did not lie. The equations are given but the exact statistics used are not. You have asked for the MMR formula (equation), not what data goes in to it.
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yeah, so publish the MMR formula
(timestamped)
this guy has a PhD in matchmaking (lol)
he suggest to publish the MMR formula, if there were major problems that arose from publishing the MMR formula, I think he would have laid them out in his lecture.
If he’s as good at it as you make out then he knows enough about matchmaking to make a very good guess at how Overwatch’s works. He doesn’t need them to make it public.
And tell me again, I lost track. Who would benefit and how from having it made public? As far as I can tell nerds like myself would find it interesting and that’s about the extent of any benefit.
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this guy worked for Activision and probably laid the groundwork for Overwatch’s MMR formula.
You’re not understanding what I want.
I don’t want to know how the MMR formula works. I want Blizzard to publish how it works.
Likewise, I don’t want to know how much Bastion deals per second. I want Blizzard to publish how much damage Bastion deals per second.
A game without rules publish in excruciating detail, is nothing more than a game of tiddlywinks 
Bzzzt, incorrect. The NFL does not use a matchmaker.
Professional sports have pre-formed teams, they set a schedule, and those games are played at pre-determined times with a structured format.
In the NFL, they play 1 home game and 1 away game against each team within their division. They play a mix of home and away games against each of the 4 teams in one of the other Conference’s division (on a 4 season rotation), and they play 6 other in-conference games, which I can’t remember whether there’s a pattern.
No player walks up, has a skill rating assigned to them, and gets placed on a temporary team for a single game to be played. There is no matchmaker in the NFL.
Want to try again?
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So you want them to publish stuff but don’t want to know what it is? Are you for real?
The MMR calculations is NOT part of the game rules. You really need to separate those in your own mind.
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yes it does, in a sense.
the worst team gets the first round draft pick, that’s a form of matchmaker
you’re missing the point
you tried to take the argument as if I know how the matchmaker works or not.
but I had to make it crystal clear for you.
I want Blizzard to publish how the matchmaker works. Whether I read what they publish or not, is outside of the scope of this discussion.
Yes it is. How to win a game, and how to get to the top of the ladder is part of the game rules.
Not even close. For that matter OWL does not use a matchmaker. So even in Overwatch, the pros don’t use the matchmaker to play their professional games.
Further, the reason in-person physical sports do NOT, and CANNOT use a matchmaker is because a matchmaker is only feasible in a digital format. Matchmakers only work when you have a statistically significantly large number of people trying to play a match at the same time.
If you walk down to your local ping pong club, what is the likelihood you’re going to get a fair match? Very small, because there’s probably only like 20-30 people (if you’re in a big city) present when you walk in the door. You can probably find someone who won’t ace every serve on you, or will at least play nice for you, but the rating system for ping pong takes a huge number of matches against a large variety of people to even begin to reflect a true measure of your skill. Ping pong rating systems move you slower than Overwatch MMR can.
I am about to head to bed, and I’m yet to be convinced that we’re even close to on the same page here. I’m not sure either of us could move the other any faster with voice than text.
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No that’s a form of player drafting. Overwatch does sort of have that, it’s the LFG system, not the matchmaker.
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would you guys be interested in talking about this over voice comms?
Will having the MMR calculation method public change what you do in game? Will you suddenly decide that moving the payload is not a priority and that staying in your own spawn is a better idea? No. Having it public wouldn’t change anything. The only thing it might achieve is some foil hatters will stop complaining that it’s a secret and it must be doing something dodgy like hold players at a given rank. Those same people will just find something else to blame.
We already know all we need to about MMR calculation: Play well and it gets higher. How do you know if you’re playing well? You win. Just win. Try to win. Winning is good.
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No and that’s creepy, again.
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I think avoiding talking over voice comms is creepy.
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I actually argue that yes, it would impact the behavior of players. Blizzard has been surprised over and over again at the decisions min/max players make in WoW to get the DPS numbers to crank out just the right way.
If you know that balancing damage boost and heals at just the certain ratio will maximize your MMR gains, you’ll probably pay attention to that and try to get it to be just so. If there are accidental considerations in the MMR that are easy to increase, but don’t actually make the outcome of the match better, this may lead to conflicting motivations.
Bottom line, it’s easier to tweak and adjust the MMR gain / loss calculations when people aren’t looking over your shoulder and second guessing everything you do, and taking advantage of every mistake you make.
They work the numbers at statistically significant levels, not for every single individual in every single border case. Having the gain / loss calculation public would just distract people from trying to help their team win.
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You just don’t get it, if you disagree with him you clearly don’t understand what he’s trying to 'splain to you. If you would just talk with him then he could set you straight and then tell everyone that you and he came to an understanding. Anything less is sacrilege. It’s about purity and stuff. It’s not creepy. I mean, he makes the same exact posts so often that there must be something to them, right? Clearly he’s thinking on another level.
People who tell him that he just needs to improve himself are clearly trolling, and anyone who tries to help him improve is missing the point, they need to get with the program. The competitive discussion forums are a place for spamming about things we don’t need and will never, ever get.
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Good point. And further reason not to make every detail public.
I still don’t get how just trying to win isn’t the best strat, though. I mean, sure you might be able to max your MMR by achieving the perfect balance of x and y, but your SR still only goes up if you win.
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