I can’t even count the amount of times I get asked to switch off Zen because we need a Kiriko within the first minute
I thought devs made it clear years ago. Metas DON’T trickle down.
Not really. You don’t know the time each heroes are played. You’d have to go through each and every profile and count each hero’s playtime.
Forums mostly, also Reddit.
And nobody wants to buff every support until they’re played, only the weakest ones.
If Kiriko deals more damage than Zen, she’s more than likely healing less than him.
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Id never even attempt to Q zen rn unless I’m tank pressuring and relying on teampeelss. Even then, wouldn’t pick him.
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She probably won’t deal more but the difference in damage between the two does not justify her being able to do everything.
Yes ik discord is good, but because discord is good Zen apparently deserves no mobility, no CC, small healing and a massive hitbox.
Kiriko has literally everything and 0 downsides.
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Top 500 down to masters they do.
Go for it. Dunno why it’s so important to you but if that gets you off have at it.
Wow. Amazing integrity in those numbers. Good for you.
Agree on that.
Zen places an orb worth 30 HPS on a single person.
If Kiriko isn’t outhealing that they’re a bot.
Kiriko also has no CC, she also has less self-heal than Zen.
Also, Zen has no cooldowns. At all. His utility is up at all times.
Nuh-uh.
Why should I be the one doing it ? I’m not the one making claims based on Top 500 pickrates.
Just because you can’t be arsed to do your research means I have to do it for you.
Kiriko heals 72HPS. She deals 72DPS. Both are exclusive.
Zen heals 30HPS, and deals 150DPS with Discord. Both can be done at the same time.
If Kiriko juggles her damage and heal, over 10s, she’ll get 720 Healing and 400 damage. Zen will get 300 healing and 1260 damage accounting reload.
If Kiriko only deals damage, she’ll heal 0 and deal 640 damage, again accounting reload. Zen’s numbers don’t change. She’d need to land over 50% crits while not healing to outdamage Zen landing no crits.
Both projectiles are identical.
So yeah, if Zen is outdamaged by Kiriko, he’s much worse than her.
Suzu boops and also self heals. Then she has the support passive. So… No.
Kk. Solid response.
Cuz if you play this game you can easily access the top 500 within it? Why should I screenshot it and put it in here for you?
Yeah exactly. If you can’t outheal a zen you’re a bot. If you’re out damaging a zen, they’re a bot. Simple.
Yeah obviously. What’s your point?
50 health and the smallest knockback in the game on the longest cooldown. Oh noes, much OP.
Zen, meanwhile, has 2 passive self-heals AND a no cooldown knockback that also deals damage.
Because you should do more than just screenshot the first page of Top 500.
If you’re gonna make claims based on Top 500 PICKRATE, then you have to give the actual Top 500 PIKCRATES and go through each profile, count the play time and do the math.
Why are you making such useless comments.
My point is this…
…is absolute nonsense.
And you didn’t even notice it.
Never said it was OP for that. You also get a cleanse, an invulnerability, and it’s all done in an AoE. A bit different from Zen kick and shield Regen.
Wow. Cuz they make so much difference. Let’s compare Zen shield Regen and kick Boop to suzu. Like that makes sense. Jfc.
Sure… Well at least I have the top 500 to support my claims. Info that is clear and available to everyone. And you have… The forum and Reddit sentiment. Yeah. That’s totally comparable.
So is everything you’ve said. Be thankful I noticed you.
They’re more than likely one and the same.
I’m not the one that started the comparison between Zen and Kiriko with poor information.
The only downside Zen has is his lack of mobility. His hitbox is partly offset by his ability to hide his critbox nearly at will with Charge Shot.
That info is far from clear.
It’s also a big downgrade from your first post mentioning high tierS “pickrates” (which you don’t have).
If you’re gonna make claims based on data, make sure you have actual data to back it up.
Look who’s talking.
Still waiting on that data btw.
Huh? You can be rendered invuln without it cleansing. This statement makes no sense.
How does charge shot hide his critbox? Can you not headshot him during it?
High tier pick rates are shown on the T500. You have access to that.
The only data we have is the top 500. There is no other data rn.
? Log into the game you play and check the top 500. It’s that easy. Can you not log in or something?
Every ability granting invul cleanses.
It collapses his head in his body hitbox.
If you’re running away, it’s even more obvious, just look at the ground and you can’t be crit.
Those aren’t pickrates.
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Don’t worry in a year or 2 every hero will be using Soldiers gun, hero switching and roles won’t exist and abilities won’t either, map objectives will also be removed. We’ll all just shoot each other in random arenas and hope its fun I guess.
I know she is op but as per usual, most people are going to want the hero gutted, that tends to be what rework means around here when we’re talking about how Blizzard handles things.
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Ohhh. You’re talking like fade, shadowstep or w.e, recall, etc. Yeah none of that is aoe.
He’s a giant ball and I don’t need his head to kill him. That’s a fun fact if true, it means nothing for the game. No zen is using it purposely.
They’re the closest you’ll get to reliable pick rates so either embrace them or shut tf up about data.
All of them have shorter cooldowns and their own additional effects (Wraith Form reloads, Fade grants speed, Recall heals…). They also last longer.
Are you sure about that.
Again, if that’s reliable, so is Overbuff.
And Overbuff says Ana is the most played hero in GM since OW2 release.
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Sorry, but that’s a skill issue. If you watch good DPS players play Kiriko, they destroy DPS with her.
They’re singular. Just applied to themselves. Not comparable to an aoe ability.
Yes.
What? No. Overbuff is not reliable at all. The top 500 is in game easily referenced data. Overbuff was offline for a while, had a recent reset, still offline, and reliant on people sharing their accounts with it. Overbuff is in no way reliable.
You’re desperate and wrong. Just accept it.
She’s not even OP. She has an escape and a long cooldown ability to support her team. Somehow people believe if they don’t kill her they’re losing in a game about completing objectives.
Then you got the dps who complain that she has the potential to fight back. It’s season 3 Ana vs Tracer all over again. Like how is your entire kit going to be built around doing damage and securing kills and still be upset cause you lost a 1v1 once or twice even if it kept the support distracted enough to make them lose the team fight.
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Okay let’s say she isn’t OP then, it still doesn’t change the fact that the support role in full, is broken lol but oh wait if we remove it(like everyone wants) then the game would just be unfun. But don’t worry as I’ve said in 100+ other threads, soon every ability, ult, and hero roles and everything else will just be removed in the end anyways because people won’t stop complaining for .2 seconds.