Slow healing, long travel time, nerfed reset time.
Extremely hard to land with very slow projectiles, and doesn’t have the charged volley like zen
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve died after pressing my teleport.
10 Likes
Say it louder for the people in the back 
You know whats the worst part ? That for some reasons people dont see that invulnerabilities with no trade offs break games. Like its the most powerful mechanic in an FPS and the only response people in denial have is “oh its just less than 1 sec”. Like its nothing.
Then when someone suggests removing it and giving something else , like DR for 1.5 sec or heal regen (50 in the next 2 sec) or something, the RAGE starts.
1 Like
Hmmm kiriko feet 
I mean whaaat? 
Immediately disproven by the existence of Mercy who has Damage boost and Rez and high mobility.
He ties Baptiste
Only in a fantasy world where Zen’s mechanics do not give him more up-time as a DPS, including the ability to ‘pre charge,’ bursts with one-shot potential when rotating, in cover, etc.
If damage had value; GOATS would not exist.
It literally doesn’t exist outside of the meme mode that is open queue. So what’s next you’re going to use Capture the Flag or Total Mayhem metas to buttress your absurd points?
Fact is, for Overwatch, the highest value is eliminations.
And what do you use to secure eliminations?
But damage from him isn’t where his value is
I suspect your problem here is you’re being deliberately (or unintentionally? I hope not) obtuse and thinking of value in absolute rather than comparative terms. In absolute terms Mercy’s damage is part of her value. However realistically if you want to deal damage you don’t play Mercy because she doesn’t exist in a vacuum. So to with Zen. His DPS potential is the one thing his kit excels at beyond that of any other support. The rest of his kit is comparatively mediocre.
2 Likes
Lol no doubt it’s a buff. 120 dps body shot would be over 60 damage a kunai. That’s a huge buff. Then you reduce the effectiveness of headshot, basically just making her less skillful. Why?
Really? Based on what? You have every member of your team in Lucious aura while also taking damage fairly often? Just no.
You can dump the entire card stack rapidly. Its not comparable. What are you talking about?
Heal beam is 55 hps. Period. We’re not talking about ults. Again, you’re bringing up non sense.
Yes it is. Cuz Kiriko can dump 130 healing in a second where mercy is limited to 55. It’s totally different. Again, non sense.
No kidding. Thanks for that clarification.
Yes. They’re dependent on events and what’s happening in the game. Again, a ground breaking revelation from you.
On paper numbers do not translate directly to practical play. Also a fact. So your insanely irrational adherence to on paper numbers does not make sense.
That’s why she commands such a dominant pick rate in high tiers. Being basically represented in every game. Cuz she’s no more broken than the rest. Again, denying reality.
You have no access to game statistics or numbers rn. There is no source, so just shut up about it.
Your entire argument is theoretical fantasy based off numbers and hypothetical. It’s meaningless. You can’t even apply the numbers you rely on in a meaningful way.
Terrible argument all around.
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You mean good heal.
Inconsistent damage that reaches from useless to high (but still no one shot).
Yes.
Its the same. Cleanse is mostly needed because of Ana and the invul is the main reason why the ability is not niche AF.
You mean besides low, inconsistent damage and only one way of dealing damage? If you have her and Mercy is your team your DPS have to do overtime shifts to balance it out.
This Kiriko hate is ridiculous. Nerf Ana and then we can talk about Kiriko, because without Kiriko Ana make the game unfun with the OP debuffs…
5 Likes
I know. That doesn’t make it any less horrifying.
Hmm… I see some inconsistency here.
My claim of dominant picks comes from the top 500 list we can all access, and from watching people within that range streaming. It’s the most accurate data we have, and that’s not saying much.
Any questions?
Top 500 is one tier, not tierS.
It’s also the smallest tier in the game.
Extremely subject to bias. Unless you are fully measuring each hero’s pickrate, in which case, you’ll have to provide the data.
Then don’t make judgements based on not much.
Yeah. Exactly. That’s why I said in the high tiers. Ie: top 500.
The data is provided within the top 500 that I cited before. The streamers I’m watching are in the top 500. They themselves mention the incredible pick rate of Kiriko. How is this bias?
In the highest tiers she is almost mandatory
Then what should we make judgements on, friend?
Edit: top 500 is gm and it all bleeds down. I’m just saying the actual proof can only be derived fr the top 500 list. We have no info on the rest. We can safely assume at the top Kiriko dominates as a support choice.
Sadly this is true and probably won’t be rectified for months.
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Kiriko will always be meta as long as Suzu is a thing. Oh, and Kitsune Rush.
If you don’t have a Kiriko and the enemy team does you’re in for a bad time. The rest of the support roster can’t keep up with her. They just can’t.
She’s too good at too many things. I would definitely increase her hit box slightly, her AD spam is one of the most cancerous things I’ve ever seen and her hand still covers her head most of the time which is ridiculous.
3 Likes
Where do you get your data from other high tiers, such as GM and Masters ?
But that’s not pickrate. We don’t have access to Top 500 pickrates. Only each player’s most played heroes.
Because they don’t have actual data. Only feelings.
Nothing. At least nothing as peremptive as anything in this thread.
Currently, the only overwhelming feedback regarding the supports is that the role feels weak and/or unimpactful. Kiriko also falls in that category. Feedback on her is divided.
From Blizzard’s own admissions, the severe lack of support players is causing issues with their Matchmaker. Nerfing Kiriko would make it worse.
Can we ?
I could also assume Ana is the best character in OW2 since she’s the most played since release according to Overbuff, it would have the same value. Both data sets are fairly incomplete.
They could remove teleport from kiriko, minor buff some of her other skills, give her hanzo double jump and she would still be in a good spot.
Sojurn should have slide only, no jump. Bap has jump for the trade off of mobility, Sojurn has mobility and height.
They just loaded both of those heroes too much.
Yes playing sojurn with slide jump is fun, but it’s bloated. I am sure Zen would love teleport and wall jump too.
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No where. Same as everyone. I said this before. The only true data we have is top 500. That is publically available and you can see it for yourself. That is made up of GM players, so you can assume the majority of GM are playing in a similar sense. I have no reason to assume that things change drastically outside of top 500. That’s the meta and it trickles down.
When the majority of the top 500 have a single hero as their most played that’s enough to assume pick rates.
They are the only ones that have actual data cuz they can refer to the top 500.
Really? And where are you acquiring this feedback data from? Forum sentiment?
We know the support role isn’t played as much as the rest. That’s true for basically every game in existence. Buffing tf out of supports to entice people to play it is not an answer.
I am a support main. All I’ve played since the last year of playing OW1 and now in OW2 is support. Doesn’t mean I’m ignorant.
Not particularly intrusive? How about the fact it basically makes Zen a useless pick when you have a Kiriko who can deal nearly as much damage, AND MORE.
She does the job of pretty much every other support combined. It is intrusive to any support player who doesn’t play Ana or Kiriko.
Tbh right now as a support player you’re either playing Kiriko, Ana, or Mercy. Otherwise you’re throwing.