Nope i actually like playing him as do many others people like you are the problem I’m sick & tired of people going on about nerfing tanks & Supports when crybaby DPS are actually the issue
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If enemy Rein is giving you so much trouble pick Roadhog. I know at this point he’s a walking meme, but the man absolutely destroys barriers and you can then scoop the enemy Rein to your team and run him over. Whole Hog will eat his fully repaired barrier alive.
Also, please ensure everyone who can shoot, shoots his shields. I see so many people stop shooting because the shield is up and it is actually mind boggling. No shield Rein is free ult charge. Mow that thing down.
Once Sensei tanking was asked:
“How to find a meaning that leads to a balance between roles?”
To which Sensei answered:
“There can be no meaning in a game where the only tank that looks like a tank is not a tank.”
© True Overvegetable stories [All rights retarded. Copytight]
No. You just want to buff sigma and orisa up to rein’s level of power which will make multiple anchor tanks more powerful than the off-tanks which will cause double-barrier to come back since rein is OVERPOWERED. This means you want to buff orisa and sigma until they are also overpowered which means the off-tanks will be UNDERPOWERED by comparison, which will do nothing but cause double-barrier again. Just like before.
These buffs would make Orisa significantly more powerful than the off tanks. She would be hands-down better than Hog whereas now she’s on par with him. No reason to ever pick an off tank with those changes. Double-barrier HERE WE COME!
Make him into a better bully than any of the off-tanks except maybe for Zarya. Orisa would be hands-down better than sigma unless you give his orbs enough power for him to be a major problem again like he was at release. So he’s either in third place (still clickable, still pushing out all of the off-tanks) or he’s in a solid second place (double barrier! woo!)
You just don’t seem to understand that the off-tank even exist. Much less that right now orisa and sigma are competitive with them rather than being a head and shoulders above them like Rein.
Yet again, Rein is the one tank that stands out. One of eight tanks is different. Fix the ONE who stands out. If you just blindly buff orisa and sigma you just break tanks again.
For everyone or just tanks?
The first threatens to greatly upset everyone because it turns DPSing into a blame-game of “why u killsteal? I need that ult!” and supporting into an ultimate spam-fest.
The second threatens to turn tanking into a nightmare where you never get to press that fun-button, where everyone else does. If you thought that tanks were hard to find now…
Give 8 heroes + every new tank ever made a passive that specifically protects against a specific ult from one hero? That sounds like a bad idea and we’re just at the high-concept phase. That’s not a good sign.
And what about the low-mobility heroes? Do we just delete them? Because that’s what this will do. There’s a reason they partially walked back D.Va’s booster buff.
Bully tanks counter squishy heroes that can’t move. It’s the specific niche they occupy and a major effect of their large health pools.
Oh, so this isn’t a “one or more if necessary”-list. This is an “all-of-the-above”-list.
You’re nuts, Grey. I appreciate the effort, but this is crazy.
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So the loss of almost 50% of the active playerbase is your fault?
Maybe, but you’re also assuming zero player loss from attrition or people fed up with 1-4-1 comps.
Also I was pretty specific about featuring QPC side by side with normal Quickplay
Check overbuff genius. That rank does not exist. Rein is overbearing in every rank. There is no rank where he’s not significantly overpicked. He has no pickrate curve. His pickrate is a nearly flat line between 30 and 40 percent from Bronze to GM.
Literally, the only place his pick-rate isn’t through the roof is in the OWL.
And quit with the rank-shaming and advocating people throw games. It’s toxic.
There is nothing wrong with picking other main tanks other than Rein you just need to understand how the matchup works. Orisa is a spam character, so she wants to keep her distance from Rein and wittle down resources. Rein gets value at point blank range, so playing out of his range will ensure Orisa gets value
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They introduced 2/2/2 queue and we lost a LOT of our top streamers in the following weeks specifically because they started having to wait 40 minutes to an hour and a half for games.
2/2/2 queue and its direct side effects were specifically stated by streamers and many of the “I’m done with OW” posts that plagued the forums as THE reason they were leaving.
2/2/2 queue is why they left. Not “attrition” and people who were fed up with 1-4-1 had already left by that point. In fact, a lot of them would have come back with that change since it was made for them.
Yes, we got better games on average out of the deal.
However, from the looks of it, Activision leadership then used the loss of players and income that followed to muscle in and start throwing their weight around.
Basically, people like you and Stylosa caused one of the greatest blows to Blizzard atonomy in recent history.
In my defence, I know this idea isn’t fully thought out, and I came up with it at 3am.
But I’m just trying to flesh out the realm of possibility on solving this issue.
You do bring up some significant sideeffects from that sort of change I hadn’t thought of.
But previously I was thinking this approach was unsolvable, so getting 70% of the way there to a design approach ain’t bad.
Even if it’s not a good direction to go for the game. It’s just one more for the list.
Here’s “the list” currently.
✅ Can BarrierTanks more popular? - #89 by GreyFalcon-11737
Well, the extra heroes thing isn’t happening until OW2, and this problem needs fixing before that launches. So that’s out.
I’m foreseeing about 7 general solutions for that.
- Orisa MainTank, Sigma OffTank
- Oriss MainTank, Sigma MainTank, but they are weak at close range
- Some rule that makes DoubleBarrier bad
- I.e. Slower regen/cooldowns on DoubleBarriers
- Maximum 1 BarrierTank per team
- A. With minimum 1 BarrierTank per team
- B. With minimum 0 BarrierTank per team
- Turn all tanks into BruiserTanks
- Find some way to deal with why not having a barrier is so penalizing.
- Turn all tanks into main tanks
- Kinda like what they did with 1-3-2, but somehow good.
- Turn Mei into a Tank
- Gets a bit of a boost to Tank players who want “almost a DPS”, but can still block ults and bypass chokes
- Lol, I’ve even entertained the idea of maintank Symmetra
That makes a lot of sense, actually.
Then let me add a full action-plan to that list.
Step 1: Nerf Rein (the pain)
- Reduce barrier health from 1600 to 1000
- Reduce barrier recharge from 200/sec with a 2-second delay to 125/sec with a 2-second delay.
- Increase ability to be a bully
- Change health from 300 to 400
- Change armor from 200 to 250
- Total armor + health of 650
Logic: This dumps his barrier by 600 points but compensates Rein with +150 health and armor to keep his personal defense up around 1200 (1150 + DR from additional armor). This means less ability to shield his team bringing him in-line with the other nerfed anchor tanks, but gives him a best-case-scenario where he can wade into a group of squishies and swing his hammer around almost without any fear. 650+armor even makes him un-killable by Junkrat in a single clip without 'rat also committing a mine, AND requires three consecutive shots from a widowmaker to take him down which is why the extra health and armor is so significant. 650 is a major breakpoint that no other tank would have making Rein a significant PitA as a bully even with his short range. Basically, you would NOT be able to kill him before he got into you. Not without ignoring his entire team in the process, which just means he’s done his job.
Step 2: Adjust tanks as a group (the salve)
This is where you look at overall tank performance and adjust individuals up or down as necessary. If Rein is too good of a bully with 650 health and 1K barrier, make a choice and either reduce his health or his barrier to bring him in-line.
If Orisa is under-performing still, then give her a small buff.
Same with D.Va, Hog, Ball, etc.
And if anyone else just takes rein’s place, adjust them down. Balance is a living thing and perfection is impossible. So just keep juggling stats.
Action Plan for return of Double Barrier
Is double barrier THE new meta? Or is it just a form of bunker in a niche on certain maps? It’s okay if it gets used. We’re just trying to avoid double-barrier dominance. With overall nerfed barriers, barrier-breaking should be viable. 1600 health is a bit too much and has the side effect of turning current rein’s off-tank into a 3rd DPS (it’s why Zarya is so popular). Using lots of barrier should be viable. It should just be counterable as well.
Problem heroes to watch should include Bastion, Pharah, and Junkrat.
Other problem heroes to watch
Hanzo and Widowmaker.
Barriers are their #1 counter. With universally reduced barriers we risk another double-sniper meta (the precursor to double-barrier and also reviled). They may require a bit of “adjustment” (read: nerf into oblivion…but I hate their one-shot-kills and I’m hardly quiet about it to take this with a grain, or even an entire shaker, of salt).
Reduce his shield to 1000HP. Even though it’s already awful at 1600. Great suggestion, shields are becoming worthless now and you actually want to reduce them further. Give me a break.
Here is a suggestion, shoot the enemy Rein’s shield, it can be broken, and believe it or not, it breaks really really fast. A Rein with no shield is a dead Rein. Play with your team to ensure you are breaking it as soon as possible.
If you can’t break it fast enough, then you should swap DPS to stronger shield break heroes. I love seeing people complain about double shield in games, and they are playing Genji / Tracer / Widows ect. Turns out double shield is a problem when you don’t shoot said shields.
Rrior to sigmas release orisa was far stronger, despite that orisa rein comps weren’t played because they have no synergy whatsoever.
Orisa wants as much distance as possible in order to have time and burn the opponents resources. Rein wants to engage as fast as possible in order to start the fight with as many resources as possible.
Double shield only became an issue because sigma had identical goals to orisa in a team fight. It was something before sigma’s release they carefully avoided with creating main tanks.
That’s the thing, I don’t think making Tanks weaker is a great way to make Tanks more popular.
(It’s also in a similar direction to that 3AM idea I was having)
And if they are going to stick with 2-2-2, then they probably need to balance the overall Roles to make them more equal on popularity.
Even if that means that Tanks and to having much more impact on the outcome of the match than they already do.
The idea isn’t to make them weaker. It’s to make them a more active participant in the game by focusing on their ability to be a bully. Don’t just stand there being a barrier-bot. Get up in the other team’s face and swing that hammer. It’s why I advocate increasing rein’s health from 500 to 650 as compensation with 50 of it being armor. In all likelihood, that would utterly break him, but I figure it’s a good place to start.
AND COMPENSATE. Look, if you’re not going to read then why are you even here?
Your compensate was so laughable I thought you were joking to be honest. You really think the best thing for Rein is to make him practically unkillable so you can just walk in and solo the enemy team. That has to be a joke right? No way you were actually being serious with that.
Press Tab in game, see those 5 other players, they are your team mates. Work with them to push. This is not a solo game, it’s a team game, your suggestion to have a Main Tank walk in and just solo the enemy team is a laugh.
Also, it’s clear you don’t play Tank especially Rein either as if you did you would know, when Rein’s shield goes down he dies. Once the shield is gone you are going to get CC’d and anti healed.
You can get into the enemies face with his current HP pool fine and make a mess of the enemies. Why does he need more HP to do a job he can already do?
Tbh, I think the better approach is either:
- A. 1BarrierTank maximum per team, but not blocking DoubleOffTank.
- Then buff Tanks a lot.
- B. Some rule that weakens DoubleBarrier, like slower regen/cooldowns on barriers, if DoubleBarrier.
- Then buff Tanks a lot.
Because i also suggest dumping his barrier from 1600 to 1000.
Getting into the enemy team would be a LOT more difficult with only 1000 health. And this is a blind suggestion. There’s this thing called testing that it would have to go through first, and a first pass at tuning could be done at that time.