That could work. It doesn’t decrease the value of spamming into chokes/groups as much as just lowering the aoe damage though. It depends how far the devs want to go with nerfing that value in order to increase impact value.
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Well also another approach, they could keep the splash radius, but have a portion of the splash damage get transferred into the direct damage.
So it’s the same damage on direct hit after bounce, but less splash damage
These are the kinds of details the devs would need to decide on with testing. It’s difficult to determine the exact implications of these changes without a playtest.
It seems as if we’re in agreement that buffing the overall damage of a direct in exchange for nerfing damage when spamming, however that is achieved, it the right way to go though?
I almost think a larger hitbox before bounce would be better.
It was a relatively small hitbox to begin with, and with both players moving 10% faster, and larger sightline maps, it’s harder to hit any shots with the grenade directs.
I know how to fix junkrat
Rate of fire reduced by 0.15 seconds
Ammo increased to 8
Projectile speed increased by 10%
Make junks projectile smaller the farther it travels, and make its damage go up the farther it travels, up to 140. Junkrat can still land directs while mindlessly spamming any 2cp choke, that extends into other maps as well. Make it to where getting hit by spam is less likely, but reward anyone that aims the projectile well.
Edit: this would also solidify junkrat as the preeminent shieldbreak character, as hitting shields isn’t difficult whatsoever.
Is that even a good niche in OW2 though? Shields aren’t anywhere near numerous or as strong as they were in OW1. As the devs mentioned it’s not that Junk and Sym can’t break shields it’s that there isn’t really much need for specialist shieldbusters anymore.
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It’s just a bonus. I don’t like the idea of junk getting 140 directs up close. People in ow2 are less clumped, so losing his splash doesn’t seem like a massive loss. As someone who barely plays any junkrat, getting into someone’s face w/ m1 into mine isn’t difficult at all. I’ve done it in masters on certain maps when I basically feel like turning my brain off for a bit. I’m not trying to dog on your main, but that’s how I feel about him.
You could even test without reducing the projectile size, just make the damage scalar. 140 up close guarantees the shift kill after direct m1 every time if you give him 140 up close.
Edit: They need to make him either easier to use OR more difficult to use but with higher value.
Yeah… this is the issue. Not the fact they’re wanting to go towards a faster game pace. Which Junkrat and Sym are not fast.
I’m not saying it never happened but I have yet to see “Man we are having a hard time with these shields! Switch to Junkrat and Sym to counter them!” or any shape or form of a statement like that.
I’ve see more junkrats just fly over shields to shoot behind or maintain a high ground and Sym just teleports behind.
I only have stated that the 140 dmg might be a bit much for overall dmg output if u find a skilled Junk who hits all their Direct shots. 140 dmg to the face every time u got hit by a Basic Attack, combined with his Mines doing 120? That can feel a bit oppressive. With just 1 Grenade Launcher shot, and 1 Mine, u’d be doing 260 dmg, enough to kill Mei and Reaper near-instantly at close range. (at farther ranges, if u hit those shots, that’d be rly skillful, but still…) Furthermore, players in the past have complained of Junkrat doing too much dmg when they set his dmg output to 130 be4, hench y I think u gotta be careful when adjusting numbers. What I thought was too much was the 140. My idea for 130, as u have re-posted, maybe would do better?
I understand that this is the point. But I feel like we do need to do a proper balance of AoE and Direct, IF we were to make ur idea Work. Only doing 30 dmg for AoE felt too punishing for those who couldn’t aim. I get it, make it less AoE based and more Direct to have players be more skillful with Junkrat, but I felt like on the AoE side of things, only 30 dmg is only that of ur Melee dmg output… So I kept it low, with 50 dmg, which would take 4 AoE shots to kill ur squishy, which is not enough for players to kill others with the spam of the Launcher, (U’d might be dumb enough to get hit by 2-3 of those shots, presuming they spam a corner, but there’s no way ur gonna die to 4 Launcher shots, as by that timeframe, be4 that happens, something can be done be4 u die, like Merci flying to you to give u healz, or Ana can heal u, or maybe u can heal urself, say ur Hog or Soldier or somethin, or maybe with a skilled shot of Hanzo, u can kill Junk be4 he kills you, etc etc.) but not have that be too heavily punished. I still punish it, with 50 AoE and 80 Direct, but not as Drastically as ur idea was, with 110 Direct and 30 AoE.
I was judging based on how I have felt for Junk. I’ve played Junk and have dominated matches, and have a good understanding of his playstyle, OW1 or OW2, etc etc. That is my personal thoughts. BUT, I have an extremely flexible mindset. I have to have this so that I can formulate my own thoughts and opinions, while trying to gather the understanding of what the problem is for other people to go and try to help them with creative thoughts and such. My opinion is that Junk is fine. Ur opinion is that Junk sucks. Some other’s opinions is that he’s too oppressive and op.
With a flexible mindset, I can say what I believe, (which is Junk is fine & balanced, regardless of what any tier list would say in any Rank) all the while getting the understanding of y others feel the way they feel so that I can go and try to solve issues that other players have, and with myself looking in different perspectives, so that then I can try my best to generate the perfect ideas that makes everyone happy. So u might feel the way you do, but then I’d try to generate an idea that makes us all happy, a.k.a. what makes u happy, then what makes the Junk mains happy, etc. It’s hard, and there r moments when u cannot do that 4 every1, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t try my best to succeed that. Better to try than to never do it at all.
I love Junkrat (which I could be better at him tbh) but he is my most played dps…
Taking into consideration some of what has been said in this thread:
- reward direct hits
- maintain area denial
- apply burn damage
What if the following were done:
- Primary Fire: impact damage 100, area effect explosion damage lingering 3m radius 40 damage applied in .8 seconds
If exploding on impact the burn continues on the target even if they leave the area I’d effect. But the mine-burn won’t stack with itself.
- Concussion: remove fall off damage.
Yes, I know this goes in the opposite direction of rewarding direct hits. But there is far too much inconsistency where even at times a pixel off will cause the mine to apply it’s minimum damage.
I know that alot of people are happy that armor is now straightforward in how it works, but maybe it would not be out of place to give someone like Junkrat who uses explosives a passive to ignore some of the armor reduction?
Now I am not saying he should ignore all armor reduction, but if say his explosives were only reduced 15% instead of 30%?
If it is too much one could add this property to direct hits only as well. Thus buffing his damage against armored targets without hitting his thresholds against squishier targets?
Just throwing ideas out to consider.
I feel like Junk is probably fine against big bulky targets.
It’s the small hitbox targets with mobility that he struggles with.
Hmmm seem like they’re more stuck on what do with how his weapon behaves, with clumps of chars being less of a thing so splash is less relevant 
Rather than splash damage or turning him into a ground based Pharah or a strange Hanzo like char with tennis balls, what else could be done to make his weapon and kit stand out. He’s all about area denial, and he shoots tennis balls which bounce which no other char has so why not lean into that something that bounces more. Maybe it could charge up like Hanzo/Demoman, while it’s charging perhaps if you walk in a direction you could apply spin to it that can change its direction after bouncing (or perhaps swing in the air) 
I guess you could also go full demo and have his primary fire explode when you want, but you might run outta buttons 
Explosives are expensive, and junkrat seems to have a never ending supply of them, is he rich?? Should we add a limited, regenerative supply of grenades? To kill once and for all the ‘spamrat’ meme.
That may well be obnoxious vs tanks and just lead to nerfs further down the road. The devs seem determined to keep tanks as unstoppable juggernauts and as much as I dislike that I don’t see them changing their minds.
Yes and no. He is fairly useless vs tanks with armour now but that isn’t his main problem. As you said it’s squishies.
Can that even be a thing anymore though? All of the new maps are wide open without meaningful chokes.
That’s exactly what I wanted to expand on. Lets just nerf it even further and put that power into something meaningful instead.
I like it but can’t imagine how that could be implemented. Like you said, buttons.
Well…
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Turns out crime does pay 
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I dunno… but I feel that’s his schtick 
But… does that just make him Pharah/Hanzo I don’t really play him so I’ve no horse in this race, but even though he has higher damage he’s not gonna be able to apply it. If I can see the Junkrat from a medium distance I’m very confident I’ll be able to dodge everything (cept mine cos it’s essentially unavoidable). The reason why I suggest weird bounce/swing things is to that they’re still dodgeable but once there’s a couple out you have to back or die
Of course for someone who plays him this may be a stupid idea. I suggested a simulators thing with bastion bullets able to ricochet and I got told I was ruining him and making a dumb niche character…
Hmmmm how about shift blows up the current mine before throwing out a new one (you still get two charges etc), right click is explode the primary fire bombs