This wont be long because most people on the forums hate reading entire novels, but the way you make tank more acccessible to players (both new and current) so they don’t default to “DPS is the only fun role” is by making it so that Tanks can hold their own against DPS. Don’t make Tanks hard counter DPS any more than certain interactions already do, just enough that a duel can be had where you don’t feel helpless as tank. Thats the most common feedback I hear from friends who try to play tank.
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Making BarrierTanks less “sturdy but boring”, and more “duelist” would be an ideal way to make them more popular.
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I’m glad we agree. I think your post makes some good points. Don’t fully agree but definitely a lot of solid ones.
Well the basic idea is that:
- If there’s going to be a “natural” way to counter doublebarrier, it’s not going to be at medium range or long range, therefore it has to be at close range.
- Doom/Reaper meta when DoubleBarrier was stronger, showed that it almost doesn’t matter how strong barriers are, if you walk past them.
You have to understand that this would undermine what a tank is made to do: soak damage.
If they were less sturdy but better at dueling, then they wouldn’t be Tanks anymore; they’d be the “Duelist” class.
As defined by what exactly? MOBAs? MMORPGs?
Can you find even one example of a “Tank” in an FPS game that doesn’t have a good amount of Lethality, that isn’t Overwatch?
As defined by games of all types. Mobas, RPGs, JRPGs, whatever game needs tanks. See, when you use the term “Tank” in a game, players rightfully have a certain amount of expectations. Namely that the “Tank” is there to “Tank” damage. Otherwise they might as well be another class.
Would you accept it if I said “The damage role isn’t there to do damage?” or “the support role isn’t in the game to be supportive characters”? No. So why should “Tanks” be reworked to be less tanky? It just doesn’t follow logic.
I’m confused about what you’re arguing with this. Tanks are lethal in practically every game with tanks in it, and they’re lethal in the exact same way: They have a ton of health, and a ton of damage to force players to deal with them.
So, no? But that better suits my point as it would mean the tanks are fine as they are.
I think they hold their own against DPS pretty well, barring getting destroyed from long range, which is the specific, limited advantage DPS are allowed to have.
Let’s make a simpler argument then.
I’m basically saying to bump up the lethality on BarrierTanks (specifically Anchor Tanks) up to be closer to where OffTanks are.
Which shouldn’t be that controversial, because clearly OffTanks, are Tanks.
In trade, Barrier tanks are a lot more vulnerable at close range. Lower HP. Worse SelfPeel.
Which should keep a nice balance of Meaty OffTanks with Peel, combined with less meaty BarrierTanks who feature a strong Barrier.
But both types of Tanks are putting out similar firepower. (And having similar levels of Fun)
While also making it so that if somebody went DoubleBarrier, they could still reliably lose to SingleBarrier or DoubleOffTank.
Oh, ok. I get it now.
These are all terrible suggestions if you want to have Tanks in the game. Simply put, doing this
Would mean that those tanks can’t tank well when its time to actually tank damage. Right now, Barrier tanks have extra defense, and “off tanks” have extra offense, which is already neatly balanced. You CAN push a barrier tank and encounter less resistance than you could the off tanks, not because barrier tanks are
And primarily because Sigma just has a worse gun than Roadhog. Meanwhile, the both of them can still tank the same amount of damage when it comes to it.
I’ll just repeat what I said before: your suggestions would make the tanks no longer tanks. They’d just be a new “Duelist” class.
We already have enough people crying about Hog and Zarya dishing out an insane amount of damage/killing DPS like flies. Making the shield tanks almost as lethals as the off tanks would flood this forum with complains.
Which is fine, because that would almost force teams to prefer having a barrier Tank to mitigate MediumRangeDamage and LongRangedamage, and an OffTank to manage CloseRangeDamage.
Much in the same way that people usually prefer to have a MainHeal and an OffHealer. Because OffHealers have a monopoly on big defensive ultimates and strong utility.
That said, as for Barriers. I’m thinking:
- Reinhardt = 1800hp Barrier
- Sigma = 1300hp Barrier
- Orisa = 900hp Barrier, 8sec cooldown
So these are beefy barriers, meant to stand alone by themselves on par with Reinhardt.
As well as a nice bump up in Lethality.
Reinhardt = 7% more damage, 14% more barrier mobility
Orisa = 14% more damage
Sigma = 14% more damage
Sure, why not completely obsolete both offtanks and DPS at the same time?
If the main tanks do as much damage as the offtanks, the offtanks have no reason to exist. They almost don’t already, if not for Zarya comps would be almost exclusively double main tank.
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Tanking and supporting are unfun by their very nature. Killing things will always be more fun than babysitting a Genji main. Or being a punching bag for everyone, even your own team.
Sadly if tanks are not fun to play than that means they are designed correctly.
- I have no doubt that even after these changes, DPS will still be at least twice as popular as Tanks.
- I think balancing for “equal impact” is more of a pre-RoleQueue mindset, where as we should be leaning more towards “equal popularity” between roles.
- I think you haven’t read this concept if you think offtanks would be useless. Here’s an example.
- Orisa/Sigma, each with 350hp, and weaker Fortify/Grasp. (With no Mei either)
- Hog/D.va, each with 600hp, and kinda 900hp on Hog.
- Hog/D.va use speedboost+Matrix to get into close range.
Which team has the upperhand in the upcoming close range brawl?
The way I see it, not having an offtank, means that you get run over by Speedboost/Dive comps.
Much in the same way that not having an offhealer, with a big defensive ult, is a big liability for getting run over.
So for SingleBarrier, not only does it make it so you usually want 1x BarrierTank to mitigate Long/Medium range damage, 1x OffTank to mitigate/peel against Close range attacks and peels in general.
But it also brings a lot of viability to DoubleOffTank, who are very “Meaty”, compared to SingleBarrier and DoubleBarrier.
In any case, I wish the devs named that class Enforcer instead of Tank.
Enforcers would be a more accurate term imo for overwatch “tanks”
then maybe we could lose this stigma about tanks needing to be bullet sponges, basically.
Wouldn’t be surprised if OW2 moves to Tanks and Bruisers.
How is it a stigma? It’s literally in the name Tank. A giant, sturdy, vehicle of war that has considerable firepower. Just make them slow like Tanks in other games so that they don’t overtake DPS.
The original FPS Tank is the Team Fortress Heavy Weapons Guy. He’s a high-health, high-damage, slow moving target with a big hitbox. In TF2 his weapon also has a fairly long spin-up time, large damage spread and damage falloff. If you catch him unprepared and on his own, he’s pretty-much a free kill - but if you run into his effective range while his guard’s up, you’re basically dead.
Good points. But I feel like those more prove my point, though.
Heavy has a scary amount of firepower. Especially when those crits start coming out, he just melts people.