" 🐐 isn't ran in the lower ranks."

[PuffyPony-1639]

rein is nearing must-pick. That’s far from inflated pickrates.

Not really. He’s always had a higher pickrate in low tiers. Orisa sucks, and Winston isn’t good in low to mid tiers. So, Reinhardt is basically guaranteed a slot outside of the handful of maps where Orisa is decent. It’s the same phenomenon, just with viability of his competition factored in.

Goats is rein, dva, zarya, lucio, moira, and brig.

All other comps calling themselves goats are using the term incorrectly…they are a variant of goats

Stop being pedantic. Dive originally featured Lucio and Zarya, but people understood Dive a year later to mean Mercy and DVa. Metas evolve. GOATS is the same way. We’re aware it originally used Moira. It does not anymore. It still uses a 3-3 with 5/6 of the same heroes revolving more-or-less around the same strategy. By popular definition, GOATS is 3-3 deathball featuring Lucio, Reinhardt, Brigitte, Zarya, DVa, and a flex support spot that’s shifted from Moira to Ana to Zenyatta.

[Fritz-11233]

The “GOATs heroes” make up the majority of the Tank/Support rosters.

Just because you’re running Reinhardt and Ana doesn’t mean it’s GOATs, that could just be part of a standard 2-2-2 comp

[Focosa88-2111]

I’m saying the heros played in GOATS are the same heros being picked on ladder.

1. That is not absolutely true. Moira and Mercy are not that played in GOATs
2. 3 of the 7 tanks of the roster are kinda underpowered due to the general meta (not because of GOATs) and not fun to play/not easy to pick up
   5 of the 6 healers are popular. Only Brigitte seems to not be picked a lot, compared to a lot of heroes. In those 5, there are 2 healers that are not part of GOATs

Dude I know you’re tired of GOATs, I am too, but you can’t just go and say whatever you want to point fingers

[Mitrovarr-1405]

Goats is rein, dva, zarya, lucio, moira, and brig.

All other comps calling themselves goats are using the term incorrectly…they are a variant of goats

Goats, as used on the forum, includes the much more common variant where Zenyatta is used in place of Moira.

[Mitrovarr-1405]

The tanks played in Goats are the same tanks played on ladder. It’s Rein and Zarya, or Rein and Dva, 80%+ of the time, even in lower ranks that never run Goats. But yeah, supports are different, Ana is used a ton and isn’t in Goats.

[Focosa88-2111]

The tanks played in Goats are the same tanks played on ladder. It’s Rein and Zarya, or Rein and Dva, 80%+ of the time, even in lower ranks that never run Goats.

Yes, but Orisa is “not enjoyable”, Roadhog is kinda bad and “not funny” either, and Hammond is extremely difficult to play. Winston is the most surprising one, but he has never been very popular in lower ranks I believe

Those 3 tanks played in GOATs are the most popular not because of the meta, but because the others are just not played

Also, according to Overbuff, Orisa is kinda popular in bronze and silver. That’s a big surprise

[PuffyPony-1639]

Also, according to Overbuff, Orisa is kinda popular in bronze and silver. That’s a big surprise

She’s combined with Reinhardt a lot for the double barrier comps. It’s hard to beat down there.

[Focosa88-2111]

Yo buddy I think you need to cool off and come back later, you’re taking this way too seriously.

[MrTickles-1464]

You want to have a civilized discussion or are you going to be a toxic idiot and throw low-blow insults and ignoring the entire context and premise.

Coming from the person whose only counter argument is “Your reading comprehension is bad”.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Not really. He’s always had a higher pickrate in low tiers.

And he currently sits at the top across all tiers, aside from D/M/GM where he falls into the second spot.

Orisa sucks,

Because Rein is superior to her in every way.

That is not absolutely true. Moira and Mercy are not that played in GOATs

And Rein has a bloated pickrate in ladder, far above everyone else.

Ana is creeping up on him, but this is where what you said can be applied, Ana is not that played in GOATS.

Rein is a problem in ladder as well at pro-league. Same with Zarya, Lucio, and Zen.

That’s my point. People haven’t figured that out and are caught up on whether Moira is the main support in GOATS.

3 of the 7 tanks of the roster are kinda underpowered due to the general meta (not because of GOATs) and not fun to play/not easy to pick up

And Rein is that General meta. Same for Zarya, Lucio, and Zen.

Rein is a big factor as to why Orisa is in a bad spot.

5 of the 6 healers are popular. Only Brigitte seems to not be picked a lot, compared to a lot of heroes. In those 5, there are 2 healers that are not part of GOATs

And I’ve discussed the fatty power that can be snipped away to make this game more healthy, across all tiers.

Dude I know you’re tired of GOATs, I am too, but you can’t just go and say whatever you want to point fingers

I’m not. every point in this thread has a given reason to exist. GOATS isn’t the meta across all tiers, but Rein, Zarya, Zen, and Lucio are more powerful both in and out of GOATS.

Popularity only applies to Genji and Mercy.

[Focosa88-2111]

Yeah you should try to read and understand other people’s statements, because you’re just making straight up wrong arguments to support your point

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Coming from the person whose only counter argument is “Your reading comprehension is bad”.

Coming from the same guy who resorted to saying I was bad at statistics.

Your interpretation of the data is pretty terrible to be honest.

You didn’t start counter arguing me until after you insulted me.

Meanwhile Rich has done this across multiple threads instead of counter arguing against me.

Yo buddy I think you need to cool off and come back later, you’re taking this way too seriously.

No, I’m just tired of Rich putting on this high and mighty attitude then become a toxic troll.

I am more than willing to bet it’s because I’m bringing up Rein nerfs.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Pot, meet kettle.

[Focosa88-2111]

I am more than willing to bet it’s because I’m bringing up Rein nerfs.

Your nerf ideas are really bad and not well thought at all tho, not to sound rude

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

and not well thought at all tho,

3. Lower Rein’s Charge and Hammer damage (200 per charge, 65 per hammer swing).

This is because Rein is too superior over Winston (aside in cases where mobility is needed), and especially Orisa.

One Charge:

• puts Orisa on death’s doorstep (actually Charge + Discord = 390 damage, which is basically death for Orisa)
• puts Bastion on death’s doorstep (leaving him with 3hp, which is basically dead after 1 hammer swing)
• kills Reaper and Mei, 2 strong anti-tank and anti-group heros

This cripples his competition, and prevents his counters from being a threat to him.

Meanwhile his damage that his hammer help outputs as much damage as Wrecking ball, and 2k shy of Orisa. All while he has the superior Barrier, since it is VERY good for pushing (Orisa cannot relocate a barrier, and 2 barrier equals less HP than 1 Rein Barrier), and is very good defensively since it is 2000 HP, of which a good Rein will never let it drop to 0, unless to absorb some kind of burst damage like a Dva Bomb, or Riptire.

His damage should be akin to Winston, who does 60 DPS. 65 per hammer swing puts his DPS at 71.5, whereas his current DPS with 75/swing is 82.5. This makes Rein require 1 extra hammer swing to get a kill, which doesn’t seem like a lot since 3 swings at 65 damage per swing only equates to 195, but this actually huge since it makes Rein less threatening to a hero, especially a squishy DPS, who is getting healed.

Rein has far too much aggressive potential, and Orisa cannot compete without breaking her. Sure, she needs some QoL buffs, but she will never compete with Rein, because she is still inferior to him.

• 100 less health
• Cannot relocate a barrier (making her very defense-favored and stationary.)
• Charge puts her on death row.
• Her barriers melt rather easily, compared to Rein who can sustain more damage for longer periods, and can drop it at will, allowing him to be aggressive while his barrier recharges.

Yeah you should try to read and understand other people’s statements, because you’re just making straight up wrong arguments to support your point

Pot, meet kettle.

Lmao.

[PuffyPony-1639]

And he currently sits at the top across all tiers, aside from D/M/GM where he falls into the second spot

Yes, because he’s currently meta in high tiers. But, back during Dive, he still had a high pickrate in low tiers. He’s just the only really viable main tank option down there. Winston isn’t good in low SRs. Orisa is good in bunker, but bunker sucks.

Because Rein is superior to her in every way

Actually, not really. Orisa is leagues better in bunker comps because of her ability to simultaneously attack and defend. The problem is that bunker comps rely on some other very-not-viable heroes to function well (i.e. Bastion and Junkrat), so while she’s easily the best tank for the job, the job is a bad one. Thus, she’s usually a bad pick.

Given that bunker comps suck, your only real option in low tiers is deathball. Which, that’s been the meta down there since like… the start of the game, pretty much. Who is the deathball main tank? Reinhardt. If you improved Bastion and Junkrat (more so Bastion) to be reliably viable, Orisa would almost certain overtake Reinhardt as the go-to low-tier tank, since the best way to handle bunker comps is with Dive, which low tiers can’t do.

[PuffyPony-1639]

Also, OP, you’re getting rather toxic. Just FYI. Take a walk and get some ice cream or something and come back.

[MrTickles-1464]

Coming from the same guy who resorted to saying I was bad at statistics.

Because they were. This is not directed at you but directed at your interpretation of the statistics. Attacking the premise of an argument is how you have discussions when you disagree with someone.

YOU chose to take that personally despite it not being an insult. I was just pointing out that the premise of your argument was faulty. If the premise is faulty no one can ignore that.

You didn’t start counter arguing me until after you insulted me.

Its not an insult. Having a bad premise does not make you an idiot. Just misguided. You are taking the debate far to personally. If you cannot take critique of your argument you should refrain from sharing it in a public forum where people will do so.

I told you your interpretation was terrible and then explained very concisely why it was.

But instead of addressing my argument YOU took a non-personal observation of your argument and made it personal by ignoring my very reasonable explanation and telling me I could not read.

Your premise is bad. Time to head back to the drawing board.

[Volnus-11696]

There is a flaw in the methodology here though. You’re looking at the most picked heroes in an overall statistic without factoring in the pool of each class. There are 16 DPS character’s while there are only 7 tanks and 6 supports. This lack of choice (especially in low elo where, they might not always know what is “best”), inflates the stats if you look at them incorrectly.

This being said when you add up the total number of pick rates for each champions in low elo your breakdown is as follows. I selected bronze for this data set.

DPS: 34.04%
Support: 35.05%
Tank: 30.92%
(there was a round up by .01% so the total comes out to be 100.01% adding the above numbers)

The spread here actually shows there are more people playing DPS than tanks (Which are scarce) and they are selecting too many supports. That being said this is a healthy spread but there is no clear indication that goats is being ran in low elo

Edit: Fixed grammatical issue

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

YOU chose to take that personally despite it not being an insult.

Intent is very different from delivery. It most certain did come across as an insult.

My points were tied into that data that I pulled. Sure, the title is clickbait compared to my actual point, but the fact of the matter is that several people, not necessarily directed at you, derailed this thread and completely stepped over my support for my arguments.

Your premise is bad. Time to head back to the drawing board.

May or may not be, but I’ve been at this for far longer than you or anyone realizes. You don’t have to agree with my point, but in that case everything that can be said, has been said. Unless you bring new points to the table, I won’t respond.