Really? Okay well, without even having played Destiny 2, the Destiny 2 system is pretty much everything i’ve said OW should be. Especially starting everyone at the bottom. I think i will go install Destiny 2 right now, considering i Un-installed OW just now due to ANOTHER LEAVER ruining my personal SR.
What i really want to know is, did they make these changes to Destiny 2 after they left Activision?
Okay, but the primary factor in gaining or losing SR is win/loss. If we took that away, what would be the consistent metric? How accurate is PBSR? It was removed from diamond+ ratings specifically because it was allowing people to climb higher than they otherwise should have. I’d argue that it’s also detrimental to lower ranked play.
well “performance based metrics” are skill
In what way? I can feed as winston or ball and get gold damage every game. That doesn’t mean I’m playing correctly. I could be costing my team the entire match and have good “performance” according to my stats.
ALL performances, not only kills or only damage (in this example of course deaths should be taken into account).
Sure, but what combination of stats can’t be gamed to make you look like a better player than you are? This is why PBSR was removed from diamond+ ratings. People were inflating their SR gains by gaming the PBSR system.
averages, you need to truly be good to be above average (on stats that matter on the hero/role)
That’s what the current PBSR system does (plat and below) and it doesn’t really do much.
If we used a system like that, and a hog was on the enemy team, I could just play mccree and dink the hog over and over and over while letting him heal back (and kill my team). This would make me look like a good player, not dying as much as my team, doing damage, having high accuracy, getting ult quickly, etc. Really, though, I’m throwing for the sake of stats.
No stats can consistently and accurately convey what value a person adds during a match. That’s why win/loss systems tend to be more accurate than ones where individual stats are involved.
i don’t feel being evaluate for my performances at all no matter the rank.
I am not saying win and loss should count for 0, they should just not detemine whether you lose or win sr BY DEFAULT NO MATTER WHAT.
there are so many solutions to this if they really want to implement such a system.
There are many solutions, but typically they’re found to be less accurate than a standard win/loss system. Simple systems usually work better. I don’t particularly see how the current system doesn’t produce the desired results across a large set of games. People typically end up with around a 50% win ratio unless you’re at the top or bottom. That’s basically the goal of any matchmaking system tbh. Seems like it works to me.
This is not possible. It is a team based game.
Even if you had a personal rating based on stats, if your team is bad you will also get bad stats. If your team is realy good you get better stats then normal.
So even if based on stats, your team is still a big factor in it.
Next to of course stats are hard to measure. A widow only getting a few kills, but all those kills ment an easy group fight win, is still more important then a widow who did 20K damage and 30 kills but never killed the important targets.
This game can only be played as a competitive game by clans. No personal rating, only clan rating and ladder.
Assuming you are taking this in reference to my sliding PBSR system.
First, you should go up from Bronze if you were that accurate and not dying.
Second, with no kills you wouldn’t get as much PBSR as you think as obviously kills would be a big qualifier. So enough to climb from bronze, but you’d stagnate in silver which is where you belong.
But now your actions don’t hold back your teammates. So you aren’t griefing if you are choosing not to kill the hog. You are just wasting your time.
Are you upset that you wouldn’t be able to smurf anymore?
I’m just talking in reference to any PBSR system. Also it’s just an example of the types of things people did prior to PBSR being disabled in diamond+ ratings. People would prioritize shooting at tanks and just manage to get kills in between that. Their elims wouldn’t be much different than other dps players, but their damage would be MUCH higher, even though they’re usually just charging hog’s or the opposing teams’ healers ults (aka doing trash damage), usually contributing negative value to the team.
Bad play has the potential to lead to good stats. Good play has the potential to lead to bad stats. If your entire team is playing correctly, the amount of damage required to kill the entire team is less than usual, and typically the amount of damage done by any individual is minimized. That cannot be reflected in stats in a way that implies any particular player is really good or bad.
In the same way, if your team manages to be worse than the other team (by composition or whatever), then your stats suffer as a result (if you die a lot because your moira/ana/zen/whatever literally decides they don’t want to heal for a game, you die a lot without doing any damage).
Beyond that, how do you differentiate between a dps player who does and a dps player who doesn’t target discorded enemies? How do you determine whether or not targeting that discorded enemy was correct or not (sometimes it’s wrong). Is killing a roadhog good if the res isn’t denied? Stats are too dependent on too many things to be a good metric for rating someone’s skill.
And that’s why the % amount of pbsr declines as you go up. You will stagnate at gold if you don’t actively focus on winning. I think you don’t quite get that part of my sliding scale.
Or you shift to a character who is less affected and farm stats. Trolls and throwers have less impact than they do now. (Then see first point about PBSR decreasing as you climb, forcing group play for the win to get even higher - not to mention griefers will go down while you don’t - which again reduces the meaning to griefing, in turn reducing griefing throughout the game at all ranks below plat).
Wouldn’t that info be super easy to determine? It’s not like the game can’t tell who was discorded, and track that stat as a damage per second adjustment?
The res part again falls back to the sliding scale. I too believe that winning is more important than stats, but only from gold up. If you can’t generate the core stats for your role, then you shouldn’t be at average.
Farming stats, whether you’re in top500 or bronze, should be frowned upon. It’s not an action that’s geared at playing the game correctly, just a selfish way to look better than other people.
My point about discords is a single example of one of hundreds of variables that would have to be accounted for. Things like when reins push up and pull back, when orisas use barriers and who they use it to save, things like whether or not a pharah has a pocket and how you determine the effectiveness/skill of a player with/without a pocket, whether pocketing a good or a bad player should weigh more into your SR and so on and so forth. It’s genuinely just too complicated to work effectively, whether it’s for gold players or gm players or bronze players.
If the win/loss system is good enough for top500 players, why isn’t it good enough for bronze players?
Because top 500 players grief in bronze.
Why not solve that problem instead of completely changing the SR system for everyone? Sounds like a completely different issue.
It is at the core of any complaints of a “I can’t climb” SR system that involves teammates.
And while you don’t believe it, it will have negligible impact on people who are where they belong.
Example for Silver:
25SR is usual PBSR + win SR
60% is 15SR
So a loss will only net you 5SR if you played above standard (+15SR from pbsr, -10SR from loss)
Winning is clearly needed to climb. If you don’t play well above average then even more so. Most players would play average so a loss would net them -10SR (+0 from pbsr, -10 from loss). Playing above average and winning will speed up climbing.
Example for Gold:
Above average player loss = -5SR. Below average win = +5SR.
Average player loss = -15SR
Average player win = +15SR
Pretty much how it is now.
The #1 biggest issue for bronze is smurfs griefing.
You can even take this further - using standard deviations from average would allow greater changes than what I used in my examples (and is already programmed in, currently used) and would allow adjustments of reducing the SR gain/loss from pbsr if playing with an outlier who is massively outside their rank.
If you lose the griefers from low ranks, the better the game will be.
(And for examples plat and above are exactly as they are right now).
I literally watch a bronze player play nearly every day. Smurfing isn’t nearly the problem you’re claiming. Most days, he’ll play against up to 2 or 3 people that could potentially be smurfing from, maximum, silver or low gold. They aim well, but are pretty bad overall with 0 flexibility when countered, so they lose most of their games anyway. In all the time I’ve watched I’ve seen 3, maybe 4 people that he played against that looked any better than diamond. Pretending we need to revamp the entire SR system because pros are griefing in bronze is just going a bit overboard.
I think it’s enough to have players MMR+SR movement be heavily influenced by performance and team’s performance. hard carrying deserves more, feeding hard deserves a loss in MMR/SR regardless of the team winning, or at the very least not gaining MMR