Is Bastion not played because

General Discussion
1

because:

  • hes bad
  • meta just doesnt work for him
  • you just prefer to use something else
  • hes boring

i ask because i looked at my profile and as someone who actively tries to rotate through the entire roster (my character profile is almost even across the board in terms of play time) i noticed that i also have him as the lowest played character (outside of sigma but he doesnt really count as most recent hero released)…

and so i thought about why that is for me specifically and to be honest its not that i dont find him useful…i dont ever feel like im being a detriment to the team…im sure if i could check my win rate it would be fine (why blizz?)…the more i think about it its because i find him boring: sit and wait…and because skill requirement isnt that high given the generous spread and firing rate, hes kinda easy to play compared to others

in terms of bad its going to be the lack of any/all mobility…but i feel like thats the one skill check he does have (knowing when its time to move and where to go)…but even if you move around youre still just getting ready to sit and wait…like i rather just play someone else…

and so i pose the question to you guys…how many of you guys dont use him because hes actually bad and how many of you dont because of other reasons (boring, rather use someone else, one trick something else)…you always hear the “hes terrible/bad” part about him…but i wonder how much of the other part weighs on him as well

edit - and yes i know he can be easily countered…but so can many other heroes yet you dont see the avoidance there like you see with him

2
  1. Team knows how to play against him and does so, you likely cannot use him effectively
  2. Team doesn’t know how to play against him or refuses to do so, you can use him

That’s Bastion.

3

tbh, teammates usually get toxic over a bastion pick

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4

Because his hurtbox is 3x bigger than other DPS while in Recon, and not moving isn’t that valuable.

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5

I play Bastion quite a bit, but hes actually terrible.

So many other heroes do his job much better, and hes still a lot worse than he was before Ironclad thanks to all the nerfs he got.

If Bastion is to ever get better, he needs to lose Ironclad. Its a worthless ability that can never be balanced, and it maybe gives him, what, 50-74 extra health? Its a useless passive considering hes rooted in place. Its only useful during his ult.

To make up for Ironclad, sentry turret form needs a tighter spread again, headshots enabled, and ammo reduced to 200 again. Bastion doesn’t need 300. If he has 200, it means he cant fire down a lane mindlessly while the headshots provide more of a skillgap.

And, the more controversial change, a personal frontal shield. A target sitting in place is going to be subject to a LOT of damage. Think of Torbs turret. That thing dies almost immediately. Even if Bastion heals, what is he going to do? Hope his team shoos the enemy diving him away? Sure he could deal damage, but he’d more than likely die trying to deal with them.

A shield would mean he could deal with them without being a weight for the entire team. If the shield is too strong, increase time it takes to transform so Bastion cant hop in and out willy nilly. And, if thats too strong still, restrict his turning radius to 180. I dislike that idea, but it would keep him balanced.

As for recon? Its serviceable. Its really good if you land your shots, but Bastions hitbox is just…urgh…

Thats all I can say about Bastion.

1 Like
6

so if he went on a diet hed be alright? :sweat_smile:

7

I think they should copy how Apex balanced Gibralter/Caustic having gigantic hurtboxes, and give Bastion like 30% damage resistance while in Recon.

8

Bastion has a lot of hard counters like Wrecking Ball, but unlike Wrecking Ball he doesn’t really have very many options to deal with them. Mei is a pretty strong Wrecking Ball counter and will completely destroy him in most 1v1 scenarios. There are several ways the Wrecking Ball can approach this scenario.

  • Go after the Mei, get repeatedly frozen, and die
  • Roll to and attack enemies that aren’t near the Mei
  • Roll away when the Mei is nearby
  • Quickly roll through the Mei before she has a chance to try and freeze you
  • Attack from an unexpected location and roll away before the Mei notices

Compare this to the ways a Bastion can approach fighting a Roadhog who counters Bastion.

  • Shoot the Roadhog in Sentry form then get hooked and die, since it’s statistically impossible to kill the Roadhog before he can use his hook in most scenarios and you can’t avoid it
  • Attempt to exit Sentry form then get hooked during the transformation and die, since you still can’t avoid it
  • Stay in Recon form and play as an awkward Soldier: 76 trying to dodge the hooks, almost completely removing your value and still being easier to hook than actual Soldier: 76

The Roadhog scenario is just one counter scenario. Obviously team play can factor in, but by himself Bastion has practically no options to deal with counter scenarios and he has tons of counters. If I were on the development team I would try giving Bastion something similar to Hanzo’s lunge when he exits Sentry form with a cooldown of course. That way the Bastion player would be able to choose to safely disengage when they see a hard counter scenario forming. Alternatively he could be made much more durable in exchange for lower damage output to give him options in these scenarios, but after all the other reworks there’s no way that would turn out well.

9

;-;

I’ve taught you so well
I’m proud of you, son.
Let’s go play catch together.

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10

Its everything I could ever ask for…

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11

Maybe they should just make him into a tank. :woman_shrugging:

12

The prime reason is that people despise how imbalanced his core value is, as it’s so one-sided into raw damage output that it limits the pick options of both the enemy and his team, in a true competitive team environment.

Such a niche kit has made the perception of the hero since release to be hated, via a myriad of reasoning, whether its right or wrong:

  • lowskill
  • unfair
  • oppressive
  • unfun
  • useless
  • immobile

He’s been this way for so long, that even not considering his state of balance, a rework is really the only thing that has any hope of him being picked and respected in confidence.

Personally I love his concept. His kit is niche, but the value he provides influences and teaches the core principles of teamwork on both sides. But with the way this game has evolved and the lack of clarity and care the patches have (not) provided for our metallic friend…

Simply put, he needs an overhaul to be a hero that stands with the rest of the roster, instead of a blighted ‘hail mary’ dumpster.

13

He is not bad, he is however very team dependent.

This is true.

This is also true.

At least I feel he is boring.

This seems very harsh. With the right team comp Bastion can be very beneficial to a team.

If you do feel he might be too strong. I would suggest using long range hitscans against him.

14

Thats because it is harsh. The general community has molded the general judgement of Bastion’s kit to simply not be worth consideration compared to other dps such as 76, Widow, or even other higher niche winners like Torb.

To reiterate, plenty of these reasons are what i deem false. But there will be plenty of players that state otherwise. That’s just the groupthink behind Bastion.

And as his kit stands, it’s not going to leave any time soon.

15

I’d agree that Ironclad isn’t particularly useful. It gives him a bit of extra time to leave turret form and avoid long-range spam, but adding something else would probably take this off for balance.

Tighter spread would be really annoying at range, as would headshots. Bastion’s supposed to at least be not as oppressive at range, so you can spam at him. Headshots are pretty unnecessary because the only situation in which you could actually aim for the head effectively is one in which the fight’s already mostly decided. Either they roll over you at close range, rendering your firepower irrelevant, or you melt them regardless of headshots or spread.

I’d agree on the ammo change, or at least preventing him from spamming a lane. My personal preference is a CD on changing forms and an extra-long/no reload in turret form, but a lot of things could work.

The personal frontal shield will be a nightmare with smaller spread. The counters for Bastion are CC and power spam. CC generally gets negated by barriers (think hook or sleep dart), while power spam will get delayed by a shield and more accurate suppressive fire long enough for Bastion to survive.

My best idea for a personal shield is have it last 1-2 seconds with a CD around 5-10 seconds (usable in both forms), that interrupts firing while active and has a longer CD when broken. That way, there’s a skill-based way to block CC and give a bit of extra time on getting spammed, but it’s definitely possible to bait it out and still take out Bastion. It would also give Bastion a bit more survivability in Recon mode, so that it isn’t just worse S:76.

16

He does suffer from the same problem as Sym and Sombra. That being he is too team dependent.

He can be good with the right team. However most often when queuing you will not have the right team.

People also do not want to build around certain heroes. Most would rather play what they feel is right.

17

Pretty much all of the above and all the other stuff you mentioned that was not in bullet point format. He is just so lame.

If he still had headshots, we could maybe talk.

18

I keep forgetting he could do 9000 damage at one point.

19

Honestly, Bastion is one hero I doubt the balance team will care about. I also feel at this point it’s nearly time to consider if it’s even worthwhile having Bastion in competitive at all.

He’s incredibly difficult to balance, any sort of buff could potentially make him OP as hell at lower ranks, and considering the amount of complaints that are already made against him at the moment, imagine the outcry if he was even close to meta, heck that’s a contributing factor to why Paris is such a highly disliked map.

I think he needs a rework, a rework that nearly changes him completely because his current state, just doesn’t really work for competitive play. This is also the only way a change could be made without upsetting the community too much.

20

That is actually not true. Bastion wasn’t good in any meta. Not even in double barrier. THE meta that bastion should excell at, being able to sit behind two barriers, while burning down enemy barriers. But no, even then he was still a garbage pick.