Can fully confirm this lol. If I lock zarya or dva it’s almost certain the next person will pick hog. >.>
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I never start as Hog, but after my team invariably shows they’re terrible and have zero awareness or interest in teamwork or winning, I swap to Hog.
At least I can take care of myself and have some carry potential, which none of the other tanks can do.
Edit: WB can also carry. If you see Hog/WB line up, those are some tanks with zero faith in their team
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Many of you are talking about dps players playing Hog. But actually are you one of them? Do you know any?
Hog doesn’t have attractive mechanics for dps player. His mobility is low, his gun doesn’t require much aim, his ult is meh. What fun could Widow/Hanzo/Genji/Tracer/McCree player find in Hog? Hook is on cooldown, rather one dimensional.
I think Hog players ARE tank players who does not want to Rein/Orisa/Sigma for various reasons - Rein is Hardt to play and needs good supports and Orisa too boring for some reason.
I think dps players queuing for picking Hog is a myth. Prove me wrong.
Hog has a self heal. Only reason he is picked. Figure out the actual problem from there…
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Maybe they should fix the queue problem?
Almost like people would play Tank more, if they still get to shoot stuff.
They might even play BarrierTank, if they had some offtank tier lethality in shooting stuff.
For instance:
Tanks
- Orisa/Sigma = 350hp, Stronger barrier, 14% more firepower, Weaker fortify/grasp
- Rein = 400hp, Stronger barrier, 7% more firepower, 14% more barriered mobility
- Mei = Tank, 350hp, 100selfheal, 10sec wall
- So she can’t Peel for DoubleBarrier.
- Off Tanks and Winston = 1sec less on a cooldown
✅ Fixing BarrierTanks and OffTanks
I know that Hog may be annyoing to play with, because people like to play shield reliant dps like McCree, but honestly Hog can do a lot of work if he is good. You need good timing if you want to climb as hog against other meta comps like Rein Zarya or Sigma Orisa. Double shield is way harder to counter imo, because Sigma can eat your ult and block hooks reliably. But it is possible to hook Orisa just when shield is broking and that’s how you carry yourself as Hog. Good flanking, good timing on throwing hooks just when shield is dying, so enemy doesn’t just hide in time.
And vs Zarya just wait for any overextends. Watch for bubbles and go in, when Zarya has use it. Also look at Rein and throw hooks when he is firestriking. Those are uncounterable, and you can steamroll teamfights just with one ability. Allthough I don’t see many decent Hog players in my masters games. I would rather play him myself, since I have the most experience on him from all off tanks. But that’s how it is with every hero - you play more, you become better. I think that just most of Hog players doesn’t utilize his potential fully, and just flank and feed.
Maybe they should just somehow change hog to a DPS since thats what a lot of people are claiming. Give him a rework or something. He just doesn’t feel good to play with or against as a tank.
I think the only upside is he is good to shoot at for ult charge, but even then his hook acts as a stun and can cancel out a lot of hero’s ults.
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So, this kind of point sends up red flags for me.
Define what you mean by “rework” in absolute terms please. Because for a lot of people, “rework” is just code for “dumpster them so I never have to see them ever again”.
I’m not sure what you mean by red flag? I’m simply referring to increase his cooldowns, make him unable to move while healing, or reduce his hook range, etc…
Or maybe even do what they did in experimental mode, and make his healing a lot less, but heal nearby allies.
I will never understand the sentiment that “body blocking is tanking” no it’s not, I literally body black as sombra for rezing Mercy’s and low health supports all the time, does that make sombra an off tank? no.
Hog is literally just a DPS with a fat hit box and tons of HP his design is atrocious, he gets away with abilities that DPS are constantly ripped to shreads for having (self heal, one shot, etc.) all because “well if you don’t play him right you just feed” the same thing with D.Va, Zarya or any other tank, Hog has so many safety nets that allow him to get away with bad play simply because “if u bad u feed” IMO hog needs a rework asap because having him on your team just turns the game into 1-3-2.
Anyways rant over. Don’t take anything I say too seriously, this is mostly just me dropping my emotions on that STUPID PIG!!! 
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turn him into a real off tank who focuses on peeling for supports, blocking damage (not with his obese hit box) and dealing extra damage that the main tank can’t, he does the least part and to some extent denies area but thats not the job of an off tank, thats the job of a main tank (which hog is certainly NOT)
Hog is literally just a tank because he is morbidly obese, if you but his abilities onto a character with a standard or even bastion sized hit box and gave them 300 or less HP, would they be a tank?
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Yes, every match I get, there is atleast one hog and I’m still not sure why some people say he has a terrible pickrate and like a decent hog can consistently get picks for his team making it 6v5 or something
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my team is almost always Hog and zarya or hog and dva. I constantly wander how matchmaking manages this especialy since the enemy team often has a main tank.
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Way, way too much currently for the limited value he brings, but yes. For some reason Hog+Ball and Hog+Dva is a thing, and no one yet can explain it to me.
Mei gets nerfed into the ground. Hog and Wrecking Ball shows up as a result. Players cry about them.
The community “abuses” his reason to need a rework. Long dps queues makes players unable to join a game so they can play a dps so… what is the fast alternative? tank queus which has Roadhog who is faaaaaaaaar from the definition of an off-tank and he is just a dps hero with lots hp.
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That. All of that is a red-flag because you’re saying it with zero attention paid to his overall balance. No mention of compensation, for example, or to how he’s supposed to do any kind of job with those changes considering that’s exactly how he used to work right after they nerfed his M1 and he was utterly useless.
Let me give you a brief history of Hog…
At release his hook had a 6 sec CD, his heal rooted him and offered no damage reduction, and his gun only had 4 shots and had a wider cone of fire but dealt up to 225 damage per shot instead of 150. Also, his hook was ridiculous and simply did not obey any kind of physical law.
First time they “fixed” his hook it improved things a bit for his victims, but wasn’t perfect. They also increased the hook CD by 2 seconds.
At some point they increased the distance he pulled targets to him by a meter or two and reduced his cone of fire to compensate. This ended up being a huge mistake.
Second time they “fixed” his hook they also decreased his damage by 33%, increased his clip size by one, and increased his firing speed by 33% which sounds fine but was, in reality, an overall 15% damage nerf because nobody on the design team understands how fractions work.
After that change Hog was pure, unadulterated garbage. 100% a liability to his team and little else. He couldn’t maintain space. Couldn’t create space. Couldn’t tank damage. Couldn’t survive focus fire. And couldn’t flank. All he could really do was feed the enemy team ult charge.
So the devs buffed Take a Breather by allowing him to move while using it and adding 50% damage reduction to the heal so that you had a much better chance to survive actually using it.
…and with all that buffing he’s still considered to be one of the weaker tanks, though mostly by people like HanaSong who simply don’t understand how tanking actually works (I’ll address her post in a bit).
So, first off in experimental they didn’t reduce his self-heal. They just let him push out an inconsequential amount of team healing with DR for friendlies standing in the fart cloud.
They also reduced his damage even more and also reduced the hook CD back to 6 seconds.
…it didn’t work. Experimental Hog was totally worthless. Not even his one-tricks could get that abomination of a design to work. Though, it’s not that the design can’t work. It’s that the devs don’t seem to understand how he works.
Hog tanks through the threat of force. If you get too close he’s going to shoot you, and it’s going to hurt. Every shot he takes is potentially and essentially burst damage that his team’s DPS can capitalize on and his opponent’s healers won’t have an opportunity to heal. He deals up to 150 damage per shot all at once. He’s not like soldier:76 or body-shot McCrees who deal damage in discrete chunks over manageable periods of time.
Hog bodyshots do more damage than Widowmaker bodyshots, Pharah rocket direct hits, Junkrat grenade direct hits, or Reaper shotgun blasts. However he’s balanced by having one of the shortest and jankiest effective ranges in the entire game (he’s got this strange range profile where his damage is super effective up-close getting rapidly worse as he gets farther away, only to completely reset at 20 meters because of his M2 only to get rapidly worse once again as he gets farther away).
If you are a squishy and Hog lands a good bodyshot, you will lose 60-75% of your health instantly. If he squarely lands a headshot, you can lose more. Lots more.
This is how Hog maintains space. If you get too close to him, you die. Same as you would against Reinhardt up close, or a charged Zarya at medium range, or Orisa near a pit.
Hog’s hook helps him maintain space by punishing bad positioning or peeking. If you won’t come to him, he can make you come to him. Only now, unlike release, the hook-game is greatly in your favor as the non-hog if you’re doing your job correctly.
You get behind cover while he’s hooking you? Hook breaks.
You break LoS while he’s hooking you? Hook breaks.
You hide behind someone else on your team (preferably a tank) before the hook lands? Hook grabs someone else.
You have to be way out of position and basically asking for it to get hooked these days. Or the Hog has to be really good at using his hook, in which case he deserves to get value out of the ability just like you do out of yours. So watch yourself because Hogs can do Hog-things.
The balancing factor for all of this is Hog’s huge hit-box. Without take-a-breather, he’s food at ridiculously long ranges because Hog ain’t ADADing anything. He’s too big. TaB has always healed for half his health per-use, and it wasn’t enough after they nerfed his damage output forcing them to buff it.
Basically, the experimental mode changes would not make up for “healing a lot less”. Not by a long shot. Once again you’re trying to dumpster him. Probably because you simply don’t understand how he does his job.
Correct. It’s absolutely not. Tanking in overwatch is about creating and maintaining space. Not about blocking damage. The barrier tanks create space by blocking damage, and that confuses some people.
Because he’s not a DPS.
He’s not a fat DPS.
He’s not a mislabeled DPS.
Hog is a tank and in order to tank he needs sustain and a way to maintain or create space. Barrier tanks do this by putting up barriers that allow their DPS to pressure the enemy team without risk of taking poke damage.
Hog has his hook. You get too close and you risk getting pulled in. You get pulled in before your tank can commit, and you probably die.
Hog maintains space. He prevents enemy dps from advancing up the field without their tanks creating space for them, and he prevents the enemy from effectively peeking since one bad peek can get them killed if he lands a hook.
When facing enemy barrier tanks, Hog cannot create space. He can only maintain it. However, against enemy non-barrier tanks, he can actually create space by pulling enemy tanks out of position so his team can focus them down. Hog is very good at drawing out enemy defensive cooldowns by landing hooks.
He is, in essence, Zarya’s #1 problem hero because with good communication he is capable of greatly cutting into her charge generation by forcing her to use her bubbles to protect her teammates when they get hooked (you tell your team to not shoot bubbled targets and she either bubbles them or you get a 6v5 out of it) and to protect herself since she’s easy to hook herself (just hook her and watch for the bubble. When she pops it you pop take a breather to counter her damage into you and her bubble is done when your TaB is done. Then just shoot her in the face).
You should play him until you understand how he works. Especially since you apparently don’t really understand how he works. Yes, he functions like a fat DPS, but that’s just the most basic part of it. His gameplay is a LOT deeper and very tanking specific.
If you think for a MOMENT that blocking damage is how tanking works, you’ve missed the point. Hog is the #1 example that tanking in OW is about manipulating the space between teams and impacting CD economy. It actually has very little to do with “blocking damage”.
No, I said what I said based on my observations over years of playing OW. I’ve been playing since release so I know how hog used to play. And I’m saying it with full attention to his balance. Hence why I made this post. He’s unbalanced at the moment, and it seems like a lot of the community agree with me.
He shouldn’t be able to burst that much as a tank. I’ll break it down for you.
He has short and long range damage
He has a huge burst combo
He has the largest standard health pool
He has huge burst of self healing on a relatively short cooldown
He is mobile while healing.
He can greatly manipulate an enemy’s position with his hook
Now with all that being said, I’ll address more specific issues with Hog. First, you mentioned that his hook can break when getting out of LOS. This is a very rare occurrence. Once you get hooked you are basically CC’d and are in his face for him to combo kill you. They could easily fix this by reducing the stun when you are hooked. It can give players a CHANCE to survive the combo kill.
The self healing for Hog could also be reduced, so Hogs can’t just run up to you constantly. The healing should be used to make a retreat to survive an encounter. not to be abused and to heal up, push more, do damage, heal up again, do more damage; all while never having to stop. At some point, the rules of Overwatch need to apply more to hog, and he should have to retreat to his healers at some point like every other tank.
The biggest problem IMO with Hog is his hook range. Even today, I’m still sometimes surprised at how far that hook can grab you. Even reducing the range by 1-2 meters would still feel OP. I understand fully that Hog’s purpose is to catch players out of position, but when i’m seeing a Hog grabbing our Mercy out of the backline in a team fight because he’s slightly off angle, that’s a bit much.
Even if he’s playing with his team, Hog can just drag any enemy, even tanks, to your teams front or midline. everyone jumps on them, kills them. Rinse repeat.
What is boils down to, is that Hog seems to be a Low risk High reward tank to play. Hog seems to be the single most tank to instantly turn a teamfight by immediately eliminating an opponent without the opponent being able to fight back if they’re anything less than a tank. No other hero can guarantee that percentage of kill like that. No less coming from a tank, who’s role should be to protect team mates and create space. Not 1 combo kill something.
It just never feels good or fair to be 1 combo killed by Hog. I can’t say that for any other hero. If I’m killed by any other hero in the game, I always feel like there was something different i could have done, or that the opponent outplayed me. With Hog, it just feels cheap. Whether being hooked, or 1v1 It always feels cheap to be killed by Hog.
That’s just my opinion, but I am basing my opinion on my 4 years of playing Overwatch.
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People are not picking him cuz he is OP… People are picking him cuz he is the most fun tank and he and Zarya has only the playstyle that can satify most of the DPS players to try out the tank role.