Is a Widowmaker Nerf needed?

General Discussion
42

widow is fine i feel like her current power is more a result of the meta than anything wrong or unbalanced with her kit.

2 Likes
43

She absolutely doesn’t need a nerf. The reason she’s strong right now is because it’s too dangerous to be a short range dps with brig around and you need that burst damage in this stupid triple support mercy meta. It’s not like she’s op, she’s just the best pick in this meta. If she was op she wouldn’t have been so garbage in dive and other iterations of the meta. Just give it time

2 Likes
44

she is super fine rn, don’t touch her

btw widow has pretty high skill cap.

45

No, she takes skill. You can still play lesbian or weeb if you wanna counter her

46

I don’t think it would make her a troll pick.

47

Widowmaker’s grappling hook is the least consistent movement ability in the game.

  • Is already interrupted by bodyblocking
  • Is already interrupted by boops
  • Is already interrupted by CC
  • Is already interrupted by inconsistent map geometry
  • Can unintuitively redirect mid-air and fling you backwards
  • Doesn’t properly refund cooldowns at point-blank ranges, unless your body literally clips into wall geometry

Unlike other movement abilities, the grappling hook cooldown is not actually the time that’s listed.

Most movement cooldowns start immediately when the button is pressed, or immediately after the meter has been depleted/the physics impulse has ended.

Widowmaker’s cooldown doesn’t start until after she has completed both the cast and reel animations.

  • The cast animation is variable, having a maximum cast time of 0.833 seconds
  • The reel animation is variable, ranging from 0.1 seconds to 1.0 seconds depending on distance
    • Since most people aren’t looking to do shortrange grapples (for distance and for slingshots) her 8 second cooldown is effectively a 10 second cooldown.

With autoaim;

  • The grappling hook pulls you to designated map props and grappling hook areas that override any potential ledges you might intend to go on
  • The grappling hook always pulls you to the lower of two ledges if two elevated ledges are stacked vertically near each other, forcing you to unintuitively aim higher than the intended ledge in order to properly grapple to it
  • The autoaim will proc towards ledges that aren’t able to be stood on, at all
  • If a ledge is beyond the maximum range of the hook and completely out of reach, the autoaim will proc towards that ledge that is out of reach.
    • Unless you are at an oblique angle where part of that ledge is within range, the grappling hook will seem to go towards a target but will actually hit nothing but air and force you to recast for another 0.833 seconds
  • Autoaim does not proc onto any moving platforms or moving map geometry
  • Auto aim does proc to destructible railings, which can be destroyed mid-cast or can also not pull you up-and-over and leave you plummeting to your death if done over a bottomless pit

Without autoaim;

  • Any ledge you intend to grapple towards requires precise aim
    • Unless you specifically targeted the exact corner of the edge, the grappling hook will hit nothing but air
    • If you manage to manually latch onto a corner, it will sometimes just drop you instead of pulling you up and over, forcing every single grapple hook cast to be a slingshot cast

With some autoaim (slider somewhere in the middle);

  • A mixed bag of the above with/without autoaim bullet points where the autoaim isn’t particularly stellar or reliable regardless of which setting you use

Regardless of autoaim;

  • Some surfaces are completely unscalable – the grappling hook, which is designated to always latch onto non-enemy hard surfaces, doesn’t latch on to some of those surfaces, at all

Experienced Widow players have gotten to the point where they either;

  1. disable autoaim and spend the two seconds it takes to precisely aim to their next intended ledge
    or
  2. keep autoaim and when dived upon, literally aim at the ground a few feet away to do a slingshot that still ends up being within close-combat dive ranges.

D.Va and Winston’s cooldowns outpace Widow’s grappling hook cooldown.

  • Winston’s leap movement speed outpaces Widow’s grappling hook reel speed
  • D.Va’s boosters have both an extended meter and a boop which enable her to either chase on Widow’s coattails or outright interrupt a grappling hook entirely by bodyblocking/booping

Furthermore;

  • Tracer and Genji outpace Widow’s grapple cooldown.
  • All CC abilities outpace Widow’s grapple cooldown.

Any complaints ANYONE has about Widowmaker being too mobile with an 8 second grappling hook have never played Widow, never intend to play Widow ever, and don’t understand how Widow’s grappling hook literally has a mind of its own and CAUSES player deaths on many occasion.

The frustration of Widow “getting away” isn’t because her cooldown refreshes in the nick of time, every time, it’s because she’s playing near her healers like she properly should be, and they pocket her to the point where she outlasts the incoming damage.

4 Likes
48

if you’re talking about tracer, she can’t always get to high ground to counter widow. And Genji requires a nicely timed deflect, or to sneak up on a widow who does not grapple away in time.

49

How do you suffer so much to widow? I feel like I have to go out of my way to die to a widow.

50

Thank you for the well thought out and informative reply!

Some of those statistics I had not considered!

51

Most people don’t even know how to play Widow so they’re surprised to hear that she has problems. They just see the pros popping heads and think that everything is gated by player skill.

They choose to willingly ignore the tiny little habits the pros do to compensate for a terrible movement ability.

The aim-at-the-ground thing was something that I observed while watching World Cup 2017 footage, and it happens regularly on OWL broadcasts, literally every single time Widow is dived upon by Winston or D.Va.

52

I personally don’t think she’s in need of dire nerfs.

Although, seeing as though her grapple was buffed to better suit a dive-heavy environment, I personally think it’d make sense to take the buff back now that barely anyone can directly confront a Widowmaker anymore.

1 Like
53

Or maybe they should address the fact, that one hero counters a comp, made by six heroes. Just a thought, people didn’t want dive, so now they got double sniper and have to learn to deal with it.

2 Likes
54

Shhh, the Brigitte mains will hear you!

1 Like
55

Simple Answer: No.

Complicated Answer: We are Never Nerfing Widow’s Grapple.

Have an otherwise normal and not worth mentioning day. :upside_down_face:

2 Likes
56

I’m Not really talking about the pros. Just my own experiences with widow encounters, and hearing other people complain.

57

I personally dont believe Widow needs a nerf. Shes either REALLY good, or REALLY bad. If shes nerfed, then she’ll be REALLY bad, or painfully average.

1 Like
58

I just think her grappling hook cooldown should be reverted

1 Like
59

IMO, Sombra can be great dealing with Widow, and a hack disables her mobility. At close range Widow is at a huge disadvantage.

1 Like
60

I feel like Widow is in a good place, personally. It’s hard to play her to begin with, so to have a nerf to her would be pretty destructive.

I like your idea, though :slight_smile:

I’d be fine with that, honestly. I’d be cool with that or no change at all. :slight_smile:

61

have you ever seen OWL ever. the W stands for widow. almost any map, with and against any comp.