In the end, I was right about RQ

Depends if they do 2-3-2 or not.

Yeah that’s never gonna work, if the you’re almost exclusively trying to convince DPS players to become Tank players.

The engine cannot handle a 7th player or 8th player, according to the devs.

yea because they make heroes like echo where you can burn down a reinhardt in a few seconds from max hp no wonder no one wants to play tank

We can’t have a situation were tanks are blantly overpowered just for people to actually play them. It’s dumb when 4/6 players on a team can not stand up to the two gods on the other side of the choke. Given tanks have had a power reduction clearly the whole making them more “desirable” always correlated towards people just wanting to have a easy time against nearly 75% of the opposing team.

As it is, currently, without internal systems development, yes. It would be work, but it would help.

We can’t balance roles on equal “Objective Capture Potential”
if they ever want to have a hope of balancing for “Equal Popularity”.

Besides which, what’s the point of balancing to prevent 3-4 Tanks on a team, with 2-2-2?

Also, what exactly would be the downside to balancing Tanks to have more overall value than DPS, assuming the duels aren’t lopsided?
Some people would quit?
Would more people quit than deliberately choosing to not fix queue times, or make queue times worse?

Tbh, I view it as kinda insane to suggest fixing queue times is somehow “optional”.

Tanks being more powerful may be a bit annoying to some.

Not fixing queue times, is the literal death of this game.

Perhaps maybe OW2’s modified engine can support an extra player down the line.

No one cares that you play Sym.

Everyone gets trash talked about the hero they play or like - YOURE literally not special and all those people could careless that you like playing her.

Higher rank players have a different experience than lower rank players especially when we are pushing the game to it’s limits laid out by the developers. If a player is playing DPS Ana or Moira they are throwing something that is rare in GM ranks. Also funny enough limiting 2 player stacks didn’t fix GOATs in GM either, it helped combat boosting and Role-Queue made this harder due to locked roles.

All of the issues I posted above were fixed in GM. If you are below GM and didn’t experience these issues. Fantastic, keep trying to climb because when you do these issues get worse and worse. The same can be said with Role-Queue dealing with queue times, as you go up it’s gets worse and worse.

In GM, GOATs was in practically every game with players who knew how to play the unbeatable comp, refusing to swap led to a loss, having 4 Support Mains led to a loss. Playing 4-5 DPS into experienced players who played GOATs led to a loss. Bunker comps was not replacing GOATs, if you played Bunker before Role-Queue you would get destroyed by experienced GOATs players. Role-Queue fixed this entirely.

Players at the lowest rank do not experience most of these issues while players at the top do. I and other GM players certainly should not be taking advice on how the game should be played at the top by players below GM since we have a better understanding of the Meta and how it should be played.

This is impossible to happen in competitive play as roles are locked with different SR in different roles. If the player has Diamond Tank SR. GM DPS SR and Diamond Support SR they will be matched appropriately in the role they choose. Quick play operates differently.

This is an issue with priority pass, not Role-Queue. If anything defenders of Open-Queue should be trying to get the mode into Quick Plays menu just like in Comp and have it removed entirely from Arcade. This will free up a slot in Arcade as well.

We can agree to disagree on this matter since our experiences are different based off rank. I’m not rank shaming, you just clearly have not experienced top level play Pre-Role-Queue.

But they weren’t and I explained to you how that was the case.

But it wasn’t. In the last bit prior to the initial introduction of Forced 2-2-2, 4 DPS and bunker was becoming more and more prevalent. As highlighted by the Shanghai Dragons.

Apparently you do not. Rank does not dictate the knowledge of the game, as you have demonstrated quite clearly as you have relied on claims to fact and simple assertions and yet have provided no substance or reasoning other than using GM as a way to gatekeep the opposing view point.

So are you saying that it is impossible for a DPS player to queue as tank?

The rank in which they queue in does not matter, a DPS main is a DPS main regardless of the rank they are in.

This has been proven false.
Due to the mandatory 2-2-2 format, there have been several accounts, most notably from Masters and GM, where significantly lower SR players, usually tanks, will get put into higher SR games due to the lack higher SR tanks to fill up their games.

You do realize priority pass came about because of Role Q, right?

You are using rank as a way to gatekeep actual discussion even though what I say is not secluded to any single rank and you do not even know my rank.

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And is that a good thing?


It’s like the devs (and by extension, the players) never really understood what, exactly, they wanted tanks to do. With DPS… their primary focus is damage… with supports, their primary focus is healing…

But with tanks? Sure, there’s a laundry list of answers out there…
“make space!”
“absorb damage!”
“protect the healers!”

…and it’s like yeah okay, but what is the PRIMARY focus? The role is too nebulous and that creates a disconnect between what the devs think tanks should do vs what the players think the devs want tanks to do.

Then RQ comes along and adds another complicated element to an already unrefined role and now here we are.

Worst part is… everyone still bosses tanks around like they know how to play the role any better than someone who is dedicated to that role. The animosity among and against each role has increased as well.

What a mess.

You have also not posted any proof on any of your claims either, you do not have internal data, only speculation. Developer comments have said the response to Role-Queue have been positive.

^ Balanced team compositions have been a positive response from players.

^ Dev comments how matches IMMEDIATELY felt fairer and more winnable.

I’m against Priority Pass it doesn’t solve much. Blizzard needs to make Tanking feel better. I’m experiencing nearly the same queue times as before.

A player dropping to Plat/Diamond when dropping from GM can still appear in GM games. I have experienced this. A player peaking in Diamond on the Tank role I have never found in high GM games.

If what you say is happening then the matchmaking is to blame.

I’m not gatekeeping anyone, it’s from my experience. You are welcomed to add yours but GM players will most likely not take it with a grain of salt since you have not experienced high level play. You can think what you want i’m not stopping you what you believe is “facts”. I’m just telling you from a GM perspective what happened, these are discussion and feedback forums. You don’t have to believe me. :man_shrugging:

I can get an idea of rank from Overbuff as linked in previous comments. You can see mine as well from Overbuff.

Again we can agree to disagree on this.

As stated before low rank players and high rank player experience the game differently. What you have responded to me is a relativist fallacy to my overall experience playing in GM.

As posted here by a dev he explains reasons for longer queues and what Role-Queue should bring to the table. Role-Queue has definitely improved my experience in GM.

Link to dev comments stating feedback from players has been overall positive to role-queue:

Would you mind formatting your reply in a way that isn’t so confusing so I can actually see what points you are actually responding to?

Would be very appreciated

There is no pros about having 5 dps not switching in your team or 4 main healers being forced to play dps or tank to win


I responded to all of them at once.

You have not posted any hard concrete facts and believe in something else, what you need is massive data evidence for the developers to revert the game mode.

You did not like my response to my experiences in GM. This was my experience from playing at the highest rank in the game. You don’t have to believe it. I stand with the developers responses as they indeed fixed my problems with implementing 2/2/2 and solved my issues I had with Pre-Role-Queue.

You can believe in whatever you like. It’s convincing the developers at the end of the day to make the change.

We agree to disagree.

"Agree to disagree " or "agreeing to disagree " is a phrase in English referring to the resolution of a conflict (usually a debate or quarrel whereby all parties tolerate but do not accept the opposing position(s).

From what it looked like, you quoted all of it and replied to half a point

If that wasn’t the case, then it would help if you formatted your response in a more understandable way (It also doesn’t help that you edited it 6 times).

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I cleaned it up, but I have stated again and again it’s just my opinion and experiences. You don’t have to believe them and I certainly don’t have to listen to players well below my rank who think they know what’s best.

Telling me? A GM/Top 500 player, who experienced the meta every game I don’t know the meta or how the game works and some Gold player does? Funniest thing I read on the forums ever.

But please! Keep thinking you know all the answers when clearly you have not experienced top level play, surely a gold player knows all the answers for what is best for the highest rank in the game. LOL. /s

I agree. Making them RPG/Moba style tanks will never work. That’s why I’m not suggesting it.

This doesn’t have to be an RPG to have Tanks who die as soon as a DPS looks their way. In fact, I’m 100% sure you can’t fully grasp my argument since every time you read “have tanks that tanks” you read “MaKE ThEM LiKe RPG TaNkes!”

Also of course its not going to work if I’m trying to make DPS players become tanks. We don’t need exclusively DPS players to be tanks, we need the player base to see tanking as something worthwhile.

No one likes to tank, but people love to pick Rein. Maybe we need to make other tanks like Reinhardt who can, you know, hold up his shield and not instantly get deleted. Other Tanks need methods to tank so that people can want to be tanks.