No no. My issue is absolutely with the infinite uptime automated healing turret lmfao.
The playstyle it enables is a side problem to the bigger issue… which is the ability being horrifically designed.
“Yea guys let’s never try to improve the video game! Let’s leave all the broken and incoherent design choices to sit and fester instead of actually fixing the game!”
I never said not to improve the game. Every person will have different opinions on what needs to be done to improve the game.
However as players we have little to zero indivual say in how that improvement is done. But sometimes accepting that sometimes you just wont like a hero/ability, will help improve you view of the game.
If you constantly look at something in a negative way, that will effect you mood, and you mood will effect how you see the game.
So “accepting it” or “get over it” can help in that regard.
Take widow for example, I hate widow, but I understand and accept that she will be in the game regardless of my personal opinions.
I still hate widow, but that accepting help improve my outlook on the game.
That might not help you, but it helps me.
That what I mean by “get over it”
Not that you need to like it or stop hating it, but try not to dwell on it
Each to their own and all, but I really don’t want pylon to have an even longer cooldown than it already does. I’d prefer it if they reverted all the pylon changes from since the season started, since in season ten Illari was on nobody’s radar. So the pylon would go back to having a 12s cd, but it wouldn’t be as strong.
Then buff the range of her secondary beam up from 15m to at least 20m instead of faffing around with pylon, since no-one seems to care about that aspect of her.
People were absolutely complaining about illaris duel potential before they changed her pylon to buff its heal but nerf her self heal.
I’m not against a revert by any means, but it doesn’t really solve the issue so much is it just goes back the an old one. Too much duel potential? Or pylon to strong for her team?
Or we give her changes that give her a different weakness- very strong pylon, but lengthy downtime. Pylon is a seriously powerful passive ability and the only skill expression it has it pylon up keeping- placement and repositioning it.
And so requiring illari to really push her pylon placement makes the ability actually take some skill to get consistent value of and provides a drawback to the brain dead place pylon-shoot strategy that generates supportive value with next to no input.
An additional 3/4 seconds of healing downtime means in order for illari to apply strong dps AND support, she has to play her ability correctly, or she risks just doing the dps part very often.
On a side note- I’d buff her healing beam range no matter what under any circumstances- it’s really silly a long ranged backline support has a short range heal… it’s honestly not a weakness so much as it is just badly designed. It’s not strong enough to be viable in a brawl (runs out super fast, unreliable, in a chaotic fight missing even a bit of it on a brawl means it’s not gonna have nearly enough uptime) and if her tank is going in she can’t reach them most of the time without going into a stupid position herself. She can’t support dive at all either. Her ability to spot heal is massively held back by a weakness (its range) that cannot be compensated for and doesn’t flow with the rest of her kit because of it- she’s far away with a good pylon if she’s in a good position, and CLEARLY the ability wasn’t designed just to spot heal her hitscan teammates near her in the backline and nothing else. She’s meant to spot heal someone who is in a serious combat. She just can’t do that half the time. 5 ish more meters would be perfect.
She also can’t heal fliers which feels horrible unintended. It just makes no sense for a long range backline support to be perpetually unable to play as a support from a distance when that’s not a exactly where she’s designed to be, and her beam is NOT designed to “hold her viability up in a brawl” or anything like that, so it’s mostly useless in such situations.
Because of these things I always end up just using healing beam to slam some healing numbers when I can to get my ult fast. Or if a diver retreats to me or my hitscan/whoever next to me in the backline needs a heal while pylon is down… but really that CANT be the reason he entire secondary fire is built the way it is
thats not true. the moment somebody is shooting your pylon, it goes on its full cooldown. they dont even have to destroy it.
Pylon just needs to self-destruct after a few seconds.
The Pylon needs line of sight to get value. The team needs to be able to see the pylon for the pylon to do anything.
Turret does have a lock-on, and it does have a limited range. Torbjorn can also redirect the turret’s fire by hitting a target that’s not currently being hit by the turret as well.
It already did a while ago.
Deploy Turret
Damage reduced from 14 to 11.
Cooldown increased from 10 to 12 seconds.
And then, during the health updates from season 9…
Deploy Turret
So the damage still isn’t even where it used to be back in OW1.
As for Symmetra’s turrets, they currently do 30 damage per second per Sentry. So they still do more damage that Torbjorn’s turret if you have at least two of them.
Zenyatta’s healing is still stronger than most realize, and it isn’t doled out in bursts of healing like Illari’s Pylon, nor does it require any strict aiming requirements like Illari’s RMB beam does. If you’re not a very capable shot, having an average accuracy of 25% or less with Illari’s beam is puts you under Zenyatta’s Harmony Orb’s healing rate. And Illari doesn’t have anything else to heal you with if you’re not within Pylon’s range (or destroyed).
Conversely, Zenyatta is a lot less defensive.
Illari is more similar to Lucio in that they’re both proximity healers and both generate ult charge the very same way (and why both their ultimates have very expensive costs).
Reminds me of all those times that Torbjorn would dominate because no one shoots the bloody turret.
Illari really shouldn’t be compared with Cassidy as there both operate on opposite ends. Illari’s more similar to Ashe’s sustained fire than Cassidy’s burst.
Developer Comments: Illari’s Healing Pylon is intended to be useful for healing her team in relatively safe positions without much focus required, which enables her to either apply pressure with her primary fire or spot heal in bursts from her more limited secondary fire healing beam. To encourage this, it now has improved health and healing output, but is less effective when Illari uses it to heal herself.
Right now I think the current cooldown feels appropriately punishing for the level of power/durability of the pylon. But it could always use adjustments depending on trends; I do see a lot of Illari players never both with proper placement of Pylon, or replacing Pylon after the cooldown. And many don’t use RMB for spot-healing.
So maybe Pylon’s destruction cooldown is too long/too punishing, but adjustments would have to be made if the cooldown were shortened.
This is the current setup, 15 seconds is a really long cooldown for a healing ability.
Not really, the whole design for Illari is proximity-healing. Lucio works the same way, and he doesn’t have falloff on his projectiles.
Illari can be 15 meters from her ally target, and they could be fighting a target that’s 20 meters away, meaning that Illari would be 35 meters from the enemy target; just outside of Illari’s falloff range.
Neither can Baptiste.
She’s not long-ranged. This is the problem with assuming that her falloff range makes her long-ranged when her healing is limited by proximity. She’s backline artillery, but that doesn’t mean that she isn’t supposed to be with her team.
Are you trolling? Lol
That’s her own team that needs LoS. The pylon isn’t at risk from being destroyed by her teammates.
The other turrets need active LoS of ENEMIES.
Again, not remotely comparable.
None of this disproves or goes against anything I’ve said so… cool ig?
Also not sure why you added the “get over it” to what I said, I never said that.
Gonna have to check this later, but I’m pretty sure you can’t relocate it when it’s healing or being damaged. You CAN destroy it though with F.
This magical perfect location does NOT exist. Most locations for it are either extremely risky if they can heal more than the backline, and any safe location will have very short or few usage.
Not only that but several DPS heroes can literally take one of the several flank routes to every point to just pop said pylon from behind. The only flanker that struggles with Pylon, and intentionally so, is Tracer, who has heavy fall off and cant destroy pylon without putting herself in danger.
If I never had an issue with pylon as a Symmetra player, maybe… get good?
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about perception of the character; I hardly saw any complaints over Illari in season ten, but your experience was different.
I’m tired of supports being given longer and longer cooldowns to compensate for ability strength. I’d really rather not have Illari go down that road. I’d much prefer pylon to be a weaker, but more readily available ability than yet another potent cooldown that takes ages to come back online. I already play Bap and Kiri; I’d like a cool, fun support that doesn’t have a really long cooldown to deal with.
If absolutely necessary, go back to season ten pylon but keep some form of the self-healing penalty around. I’m fine with that as long as secondary gets a range buff.
She can actually but only if shield health is still up.
I suspect the thought is that, in the case of the turrets that do DPS, they have to be within sight of the enemy to work. If it can shoot them, they can shoot it.
Where with the healing pylon, it need only be in sight of its team, so can be placed out of range/sight of the enemy’s ability to do anything about it.
As a support player, it doesn’t bother me. But then I take full advantage of the fact that with proper placement, I can keep that things going all fight without worry of anyone taking it out.
You playing against bot illari’s in pisslow is not an indication of me needing to get good.
Yes, perfect pylon locations DO exist where it is uncontestable without literally going in and feeding. The only hero in the game who can reliably destroy pylon safely is sombra because she can virus it, but maybe ig we haven’t learned anything these past years, forcing counter swaps because something is unstoppable otherwise is not good hero design.
Pretty much every other hero needs to force their way into the backline just to shoot a destructible… not even an enemy player. Whilst taking free pot shots from the Illari and her team. That’s awful. All other turrets are at risk because they need to see the enemy for value. Pylon completely avoids that hence the borderline infinite uptime.
I am a Diamond player mostly because I barely play right now. Was masters not that long ago.
I am sorry to tell you but if you want a free win where you can just win without swapping then OW is not for you.
OW is about adapting your hero pick to the situation.
If this is true about the heroes you dont like, then its true about your main too.
The thing is once that Pylon is gone she becomes the most unreliable healer in the game. Yet I feel the Pylon is made of paper sometimes.
Even with Pylon she is one of the most unreliable healers anyways, if not the most unreliable.
I cant really think of someone that is worse at consistent healing than Illari, who is double limited on her healing sources.
Not every hero functions like that where they are unstoppable without swapping. A hero should never be unstoppable without swapping. It’s the reason so many heroes are god awfully designed.
Swapping should be an option, not a necessity.
I mean it will always be an option. The game cant force you to swap, it will always be a strong suggestion if the situation merits it.
But also, from my perspective, you are just denying that several heroes can deal with pylon. You just dont like any of them.
Me mentioning Symmetra was this. People whine that only Sombra can deal with it, but Pylon is only an issue if you have fall off and zero mobility.
Don’t bother with him. He will just assert how right he is, and how wrong you are, no matter what.