A lot of the OG players of overwatch may not be around, but I remember the days when genji and tracer were complained about on the same levels, some justified, some not.
The point being they continued to complain about and target these characters until they were F-tier, as they currently are in the game (at high ranks anyway) and now any time people try to say these characters are complained about by the dps players who want them viable, people just say “its not their meta” or “they are fine just hard to use” or a plethora of other excuses to sweep the actual problem under the rug.
When hanzo gets nerfed to unusable levels as the forums would like, it will be McCree next, for his shield break, then it will be widow for her sniping. Then they will move to the next dps that is useful, then the next, then the next.
The forums does not want dps usable even when goats was meta and dps weren’t even usable, and doomfist was okay in certain situations they wanted the only okay dps to get nerfed.
Do not let yourselfs be fooled by the forums. They don’t care about the viability of other dps. If they did they wouldn’t have complain every time a dps was usable. Reaper and mei have been terrible forever for Christ sake, and they finally become good and the complaints for nerfs come instantly
it does not matter what dps it is. The forums will always move to make them unusable.
And by “useless” your definition is not being able to kill all targets, at all ranges, with the assumption the rest of the team contributes zero damage.
Keep in mind this Doom guy argues that Hanzo should have no significant bad matchups, and the only weakness he needs to be balanced is that he’s disadvantaged in a 1v6 versus Dive.
you’re deluded, really.
you act like this forum is against dps when anytime a support doesn’t die the moment they’re looked at, that support gets witchhunted.
dps have it easy compared to tanks and supports, don’t kid yourself. dps arent allowed to be op because “they weren’t meta before”.
that was never an excuse for orisa, was it?
also, bringing up goats doesn’t strengthen your argument, as that was practically only played in the OWL
Baptiste was mediocre before his gun buffs, now he’s in line with the other supports in terms of winrates = OPOPOP
Moira was literally unchanged for a YEAR, and suddenly became OPOPOP
Zen went from the least used support to meta in a patch and people were saying he would be useless despite him being the longest running meta hero in the game
There are some reasonable things that could be done to Hanzo that some have suggested on the forums. Not everyone on here, wants to dumpster the characters they may hate or dislike.
Sounds like a tinfoil hat theory to be honest.
But in a way I agree with you to be a point, but I still think the mentioned heroes need tweaks. But that’s literally it.
I mean, if you were an OG, you’d know that neither of them were nerfed into F-tier, but rather had counters put into place specifically for them. Sure, Tracer got a single minor nerf, but that was half reverted on top of getting buffed.
Sorta different from just wanting to tone down Hanzo so he actually has a range he’s bad at.
dps also don’t hold metas hostage. they aren’t what shapes the game like supports and tanks are.
tanks and supports have always dictated how the game plays, while dps are just a product of it, and they always get blamed for it or nerfed because of what tanks and supports cause.
orisa is still meta they didn’t nerf orisa, they nerfed shields and super buffed her as compensation.
They reverted the armor nerfs to make tanks stronger. The only support that got nerfed was moira. and brig got a buff with the armor nerf reverts.
what did dps get in this same patch?
genji got 6 more shurikens. woooohoooo /s
there is nothing “op” about dps right now. The forums always moves to nerf some dps at all times. Hanzo wasn’t even meta in the double barrier, or goats, and people were still asking for nerfs to him.
you may have never played in a team environment or high ranks, but I have.
just because you don’t experience something, doesn’t mean it isn’t a relevant argument.
I didn’t mean that the heros were directly nerfed into f-tier, what I meant is people complained about them until they directly, or indirectly nerfed them with the addition of heros and cc around them, until they were f-tier.
so if hanzo needs to be nerfed to have a range he is bad at, why are hero allowed to have abilities that allow them to close the gap no matter what?
one can shoot at any range, but cant move to it,
the other (except genji who can shoot at any range) cant shoot at every range, but can get to every range.
I understand your argument, but so long as there are hyper mobile characters that make his effective range trivial to get to , I think it has no merit.
For a more on-topic framing of my argument.
My retort to your premise in this discussion, it that your concept of “useless” is so excessively lenient that the proposed threat of “Hanzo being made useless, means McCree and Widow will be useless” is so extremely vague it doesn’t mean much.
Since apparently being reliant on teammates to deal damage, means useless.
Even though Widow can’t do much against barriers or Tanks, which means she’s already useless, by your above definitions.
On one side, you have long range heroes that are stuck at long range. That tends to come with the balance that they’re bad at short range. For example, Widow is great at a distance, but close up all she can try to do is run away.
And on the other, you have people who are weak at long range, but have the tools to close the gap. Tracer is an easy one. Spread makes her range unreliable, but her blinks let her stay close enough to take advantage.
This keeps it fair on both sides and makes it a matter of which hero can force the situation they’re better in for the upper hand. The back and forth keeps both sides situational, which is healthy for a game centered around swapping heroes to adapt to a situation.
But then you have Hanzo who has the range to oneshot anywhere and mobility to back up to the distance of his choosing. Normally, that would be balanced and leave him in the same scenario as Widow (ya know, the other sniper). But then they also keep giving him abilities that are made to completely burst down anyone who gets so close he can’t escape. He gets the best of both scenarios but the drawbacks of neither.
(also lol at thinking Genji is consistent at range)
no its not. that was a thread about hanzo specifically.
this is a thread about the causes of letting people call for nerfs indiscriminantly.
just because a topic has the subject of hero balance, does not mean that you can bring any hero or other subject with hero balance in it.
remember how many people used to derail threads about hero balance with “mercy has it worse”?
remember how they would get silenced, and have their comments removed or moved to the megathread?
and that again would be defamation
id retort that you lack the knowledge to full understand the depth of the argument being made
for instance you talked about what I said about widow:
but seem to forget that a widow can flank around shields, snipe, and then safely grapple away.
she is hit scan so she can hold a target for the very moment that the shield drops and kill them as it does. she doesn’t have to lead shots like hanzo, she doesn’t have travel time like hanzo.
You don’t have the game experience, or high enough ranked experience to understand that.
if you cant understand something that simple, you wouldn’t be able to understand the reasoning behind my arguments.
she may only be able to do it every so often, but she has a way around it.
you don’t understand that though because you don’t have the experience, and perception needed to.
its not a weakness if their kit makes it trivial to get to close range.
if that argument is to be made, then why do pharah and genji have no fall off damage?
genji can kill at long range, any range in fact, but he isn’t optimal at long range. If you were good enough you could use him as a sniper, just like if you are good enough you can use hanzo at close range. But that doesn’t mean their kit is designed to be that good. It means its all down to player skill.
again her mobility makes it to where she can close the gap for that spread trivially
how is it fair on both sides? how is tracer being able to close the gap for her only weakness, constantly, fair for anyone but tracer?
not really it just makes it to where tracer is so good at overcoming her “weakness” that she can force any engagement she wants, and that she can play against any hero easily, so long as she is good with her movement. There is no hero that can constantly keep distance from tracer at the range she can close the gap, except, another tracer.
not really? his leap is 5 meters on a 6 second cooldown. a distance that can be covered by every hero in the game, by pressing the w key for 1 second. his wall climb requires him to take positioning near a wall, and on low ground of some type. which is in direct conflict with what a sniper wants.
also just because he can one shot at close range, does not mean it is easy or optimal for him to do it. he is not going to be able to easily kill a tracer constantly blinking through and around him. he is not going to easily kill a genji jumpind directly over top of him. have you ever tried shooting directly up in this game? its not a thing you can do with consistency.
I mean the same could be said to you about him being able to one shot at close range consistently.
no it wouldn’t.
widow can one shot at close ranges as well?
she can also move in any direction she wants 20 meters.
she has the tools to keep distance for atleast 1 engagement. hanzo has inferior mobility compared to widow.
not really? he doesn’t have the ease of use a genji or tracer has. he cant just fire indiscriminately, less he wants to waste that oh so valuable tool you bring up.
he has to hit precision shots.
the draw back is how precise you have to be with his tools. versus a tracer who has a huge area they can hit you in, or a genji that has a high fire rate and spread to hit you with.
