You can kill any 200 hp hero without them even being able to do anything with sleep. It’s just a timing thing.
True, and mostly ana’s scream whoever got sleept so hanzo quickly hits the head. Why even try it yourself if you don’t have to? Team is key.
Same when I play tracer against a 4-6stack its way harder compared to full solo. Since they will call out, where I am, where I’m going etc. Solo you harass mercy, then bastion, normally bastion should already know, i’m behind him. Good teams can to this.
No i dont think so. You either have a low skill ceiling or a high one, theres no “no skill ceiling” because it literally defies the purpose of labeling in a progressive scale all heroes.
“On the other hand, a task like data entry typically has a rather low skill ceiling, because working at peak efficiency is generally quite easy” Quote from Esports terminology.
Thats what you meant. “No skill ceiling” doesnt exist mate. Facts.
False. DF is by far the hardest hero to get value of. Low tier player wont even have a clue of how to combo and do “basic” stuff with DF. DF has a HIGH skill floor ( skill level required to be effective with him ), Genji and Tracer are “less hard” than him for sure.
It is what it is and you are wrong again imho. Im going to stick to the developer’s way of balancing the game rather than yours but thanks. I think they have way more experience and are way more aware and have way more inside info than you have but i see where you are coming from. Im high plat and hell i would like them to balance around “my rank” but honestly, i dont think they should. Then again, thats just opinions.
She is not. The thing is that you cant compare 2 heroes in a vacuum. Its easy to throw that sentence now and not during the triple tank meta when if you didnt pick Ana you were throwing.
Yeah we all have been there.
Ana is not weak, nor she is not rewarded for skilled play. The problem is the meta and the enviroment, right now, punishes HARD anything that cant heal or deal with/through shields and AoE damage. Mercy’s mobility and survability will always be unrivaled.
If you want to ask for Ana buffs or Mercy nerfs, sure mate, but what im talking about is the flawed unfair comparison of “if brig can bla bla, then Ana should blah”.
Nah.
No one in this thread bought that.
Its not the same. Very different situations and very different characters. Just because they happen to be both supports, doesnt mean they are comparable at THAT level, nor the things one can do should be a sinequanon reason to buff anyone.
Can brigitte heal as much as ana?
Comparing completely different things is just silly.
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That depends on how good your team is at listening. Also if they can get to where the slept person is. LFG does usually help with this so.
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Me saying he had “no skill ceiling” was a way of exaggerating how low it actually is. so if you’re saying it’s low, we are saying the same thing.
I disagree.
I’m not necessarily saying they should balance towards the golds, but I’m just saying it isn’t unreasonable to do so. These guys balance from both groups depending on the hero, so it leads to this awkward mix of “non casual” and “casual.” I don’t care either way, I’d just prefer they pick a group. I’m a high plat - low diamond player, almost hit diamond in S9. It’d be great if they balanced around the rank, but I’m not going to request that they do. I just think the way they balance is strange.
Again, I disagree. If the meta is the problem, then the meta as been a problem since season 4. And that sucks. Ana requires far more skill than mercy and Brigitte, yet she struggles more and has been out of meta- because the developers are afraid of an Ana meta. They don’t want her “too good”, so she instead sits at a state of being outshined for a year. Ana has been a bad pick for way too long, and she needs buffs to compensate. “Can we get a mercy instead” has been a super popular phrase for quite some time.
I mean. It’s a valid request? “If Brigitte can be an off tank-healing-Tracer eraser, can Ana be able to have an easier time surviving too?”
Mercy can fly away. Lúcio speed boosts away. Brigitte easily fights back. Zenyatta has his discord orb, which helps him fight back easier- but it’s still hard for him sometimes.
Ana basically just has to hope the enemy gets hit by her sleepdart.
Even more technically, the combo on tracer is sleep-shoot-nade-melee for 165 and you could wait for the end wake up animation to be extra safe.
It wouldn’t be a cheap combo. Landing sleep dart on Tracer is almost near impossible. Why should we add a new hero to the game that can take care of heroes that take hours to master, but when we say Ana, a very hard hero, should be able to become one that can combo Tracer to death as well? Its not like it will be easy. High reward would be in place for those who land a high skill ability.
We shouldn’t have to. That’s part of my point.
Sarcasm or not, no, they shouldn’t. I think Ana should have the ability to kill someone like Tracer if she lands the sleep dart.
She should be able to kill Tracer in 3 hits. It would make it a little easier for her.
I want it to be good on Tracer, a hero that is incredibly fast. The most mobile hero in the game. Adding a primary fire is pretty impossible at the end of her combo.
Ana’s combo wouldn’t be cheap. Compare a combo that Ana does that I mentioned: Sleep + M1 + Bionade, is incredibly fair. Tracer is a nimble and small hero. Doing step 1 isn’t easy, so really, it wouldn’t be cheap at all.
She shouldn’t have to melee.
This is probably the one thing I am still upset about when they nerfed hog. I understand his damage needed toned down, but he can’t hook + one shot Tracer? That’s ridiculous.
Refer to what I said to Magey.
She wouldn’t be deleting heroes like you believe. Even with 80 dps coming back wouldn’t delete heroes.
Yes she does. She is outshined by every other healer in the game. Even Lucio’s AOE healing.
It isn’t though. She would still have to hit 200hp heroes 3 times to kill them. Even Mei would still have to be 4 hits and Bastion 5.
Questionably Ana. Like I mentioned, she is outshined. Lucio is only better do to his mobility. Ana can’t compete with mobility.
Thanks, Obama. No, but seriously, yeah they complain about Ana and now they have Brigitte who can easily outplay them with an hour of play time. I do think Genji and Tracer are becoming near trash picks, however.
I wouldn’t go past 15 dps.
Actually a really good idea. I think this would be completely fair. Have a cookie. 
The timing is incredibly hard. The lack of high reward is silly.
Because if Tracer is in your backline and you’re playing Ana, she should be able to deal with it if she lands the sleep dart. Enough said.
Actually, people can be in bronze and still know how to play Doomfist. There are people down there that have played the game since launch and I bet you that at least a couple hundred of those players play Doomfist and are actually pretty good at him. Being in bronze doesn’t make you inherently bad.
You think it is flawed because you seem to find Ana incredibly easy and you think Ana players who land the first shot (sleep dart) shouldn’t be able to follow through with a kill on Tracer. That’s ignorant.
If you compare repair pack and bionade, repair pack heals more. As for healing normally, of course Ana heals more, but that isn’t what I am getting at.
A 3 tap from Brigitte and saying Ana should do the same thing for high skilled play, isn’t comparing different things. Brigitte has low CD on all of her abilities, and if Ana uses all of her abilities to kill Tracer, she should be able to kill Tracer. Sleep dart and bionade are not that fast of CDs.
Ana shouldn’t have to be extra safe for a high skilled play. Brigitte doesn’t. It isn’t fair at all.
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*I’m just pointing out that sometimes people forget that Ana works extra hard for her combo. Am I a little salty about Ana having the lowest survivability in the supports? Oh no, not at all <.< >.> COUGH
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Just because 1 hero can do something, that doens’t mean all should be able to do that.
Ouch i get it now. Not intuitive at all, like not at all.
You cant disagree with facts mate but ok.
Thats not the request and you know it and still no, its not a valid request.
Brig does have a “tracer killer combo” but just because she has, is not a valid reason for any other character to have it.
Brig is close range (flail), Ana is not (hitscan, zoomed weapon, infinite range)
Brig doesnt have mobility besides Shield bash, Ana doesnt either
Brig does AoE heal, low. Ana does targeted heal , high.
Brig has a shield (can be destroyed), Ana has a sleep dart
Brig provides armor, Ana provides Healing boost and ANTI heal.
Yeah both are supports but once again, for the gazillion time, the “tracer combo” situation REQUIRES a mistake from the Tracer player, landing a sleep its 100% on Ana’s side. Not a fair comparison.
Saying Bronze players are pretty good at DF is quite an oxymoron mate. You can throw random shurikens and swift strike towards an enemy, easy value. Try that with DF, you get destroyed in 3,2,1 … his hitbox is 3x bigger than Tracer and Genji.
You are just denying facts.
You keep putting words in my mouth i didnt say, i just got tired of you distorting everything you read and trying to then call me names.
I never said Ana was easy but you are comparing Apples to Olives. Yes, both grow from a Tree but besides that, theres no correlation nor you can justify changes on one with the other. Period.
Thats a feeble, flawed and non sense comparison. It is what it is. Stop being stubborn and look for another things to get a “win” just because you cant admit the truth.
You don’t need any type of skill to play as Brigitte, yet, she’s one of the most effective supports in game.
Ana? She needs to AIM, land her shots, and manage her only healing ability on a 12 second cooldown.
Mercy? She is a good healer, but even the single touch of a feather kills her.
Lucio? He heals for so little it’s almost unnoticeable, low damage output and slow projectiles that can be dodged 100 meters before they hit.
Zen? Just jump him and he’s dead
Moira? Burst damage and she’s instantly dead.
Brigitte? Well, if you’re feeling pressured by someone, keep your shield up, stun them, combo them, and if you didn’t kill them, try again in 4 seconds.
Low health? Shield bash while staying on safety behind your shield AND heal.
Teammate dying? Use your braindead heal that restores them a huge pool.
See the enemy team trying to engage? Use rally and make it an insta win to your team
Any problem at all? SHIELD BASH IT!!
She’s low skill needed, low risk, but a high reward. She can counter every hero in the roster with ease and not much effort.
But “she’s balanced you just have to learn how to counter her” haha
That isn’t what I am getting at. I’m not saying all heroes should be able to do that. This post is about ANA being able to do that because of a high skilled play.
No, because the rank of the palyer doesn’t always mean their bad. You’re easily bought into that bs. I’ve seen players who have been gold all of their career and they’re really really good with heroes like Doomfist. You aren’t in bronze, so you know absolutely nothing when it comes to that.
I called you a jerk once because that was all you were doing. You were saying “it’s a you thing” literally the worst argument I have seen on here. It means you know squat about some heroes and how they struggle. If you’re going to act like that, you’re not welcome in this thread. I am all for you discussing things, but coming in here and starting out by saying “it’s a you thing” makes it useless to say anything to you.
And you keep saying this without looking into it. Let me say it again.
If Low skilled plays can get a high reward, then high skilled plays should definitely get a high reward. It’s non-sense when someone disagrees with this. It makes zero sense. You’re defending low skilled plays, it’s not right.
I’m not looking for a “win.” I’m looking for more survivability for Ana because really, she has one of the worst ones in the game. Get off your high horse and stop believing that you are 100% right. I’m not here saying your answer is invalid, I’m here saying that what you are saying is terrible. Your arguments can mean something, but if you keep boasting about how you’re right, then the conversation doesn’t go anywhere. It’s childish. You don’t see me saying/implying “What I am saying is right, admit to the truth.”
Nope, you don’t need any skill. I learned her skill ceiling in a maximum of 2 hours. Her kit is simple and deadly. That’s poor development. Don’t get me wrong, I think Brigitte is cool lore wise, but in game, she isn’t fair. She’s the most justifiable hero to get nerfed at the moment.
She still heals more, but I’m not trying to compare healing here.
Her survivability is better than Ana’s.
Lucio is still better due to his survivability.
He has a high skill ceiling. He can defend himself, but usually you don’t see that too too much in low ranks. It’s possible, but less likely than M or GM.
The mobility with her is good. Damage and range give her the upper hand.
You can bait out the abilities that can negate shield bash. This is the issue.
One of the easiest things to do with Brig. Gives her the upper hand in a lot of fights.
150 health, 75 armour on max health every 6 seconds that lasts 5 seconds.
Not an insta win. However, with the armour stacking up, you might as well chip through it before using ults. It should have a decay over time after ult is done.
Agreed, but not with all heroes. She can obliterate 85-90% of the roster, though.
Why not?
We can always increase sleep dart damage to bring her more.in line with brig
But i dont think thats necesary becausd them ana would be able to 4tap 200 hp heroes and not even brig can do that
Still would be a hard to land. Also, you are mistaken if you think Brig can’t 4 tap at least some 200hp heroes.
No she cant
Her famous combo is
35 + 70 + 50 = 155
She would need to add two more melees in to fully kill them, meaning they now have 1.1 seconds to react and escape, …
But with ana you cant escape since your sleep if she could 4tap
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If you time it right, you can actually 3 tap Genji. It doesn’t make sense to me, believe me, but it’s real. You can even do it with McCree.
How does timing it right increase the damage?
You would have to grab a wounded gengu or add another two swings mid combo
I wish I could explain. I’ve tested it myself in custom game without any changes to it.
being more skilled isn’t a reason for such thing either.
She can shine in aspects where other heroes doesn’t.
if you just put all good things in one hero it just becomes broken and OP.