If Blizz decided one existing character was trans

Story Discussion
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Soldier 76 was gay from the start. But they didn’t want to introduce him and say he was gay, because then people would just view him as “the gay character”, and sexuality is not a major defining character trait for the majority of the cast. The only character in the game who is defined by their relationship is Widowmaker, and that’s because she’s, well… A self-made widow maker.

The problem is, there wasn’t any better way to do it.

  • Option 1: Reveal Jack is gay when he was introduced - He is “the gay one” instead of “Jack Morrison.”

  • Option 2: Never reveal his sexuality - He remains gay, but no one knows. What’s the point of writing something that no one will ever read?

  • Option 3: Make a story centered around it - Jack is gay becoming a story would be a waste of a story. The way it was handled was at least as a background detail.

I think that it was handled poorly, but there really isn’t a better way to handle it. Jack’s sexuality will does not appear be relevant in the story going forward, he hasn’t been in a relationship in ages, and his reveal was of him looking at pictures of a boyfriend he had ~30 years ago. It felt like the reveal was sort of forced into the story, through him looking at an ancient photograph he keeps on his person, but there wouldn’t have been a better way to do it that wouldn’t be either more forced, or destructive to his character. At the very least, with the reveal we got, Jack Morrison is still Jack Morrison, and he hasn’t compromised his character.

But a normal life was never the reward for people like us.

He sacrificed love for his job and duty, and lived with that sacrifice for 30 years. They didn’t write in a romantic subplot in the present like you see in 90% of Hollywood movies, he remains that solitary soldier that sacrificed having a family, and is living with that consequence. And the fact that they gave him the reveal while keeping that core character integrity in tact is good.

TLDR: I don’t like how it was done, but you couldn’t have done it better without damaging his character or introduction.

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This is an excellent response- I personally don’t want Moira to be depicted as any LGBTQ identity, simply because her moral ambiguity and lack of care for human life further drives home that queer-coding. The Hays Code was something I never knew about and I’m really excited to do more research on it. I personally live in a fairly accepting place, and wear a rainbow ribbon as a signal to fellow gays, but picking up on the subliminal signals and decisions people is a really interesting part of our culture. Wish I could give this post more likes!

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While I agree overall, I disagree that they couldn’t have done this better.

  1. Revealing this earlier. I understand your reservations about him simply being revealed as “the gay one”, but that clearly has not happened with other gay characters that have been revealed from the start as gay. Like Steve Cortez is introduced as a gay man and is a very well written and liked character in the fandom. And I wouldn’t even necessarily say “reveal it immediately”, I would do something similar with Tracer, reveal it (unambiguously, rather) within a few months of his introduction. But of course this is reliant on a more consistent and faster lore flow, so that would not happen. But still, over 2 years is far too long.
  2. Have it be more obvious that he and Vincent were in a relationship. You know, a picture of them actually hugging or holding hands, or (perish the thought) kissing. The picture as it is is just so bland and ambiguous. At least then we would have actually powerful representation instead of this wishy-washy half measure.

And again, my problem isn’t necessarily that Jack is gay by itself. My problem is more that it’s like Blizzard saw that with Jack they can have their cake and eat it too; have “gay male rep” without actually showing it in any meaningful way. Meanwhile, Lucio, McCree, Hanzo, Baptiste and Rein are all characters that could easily be written to have a current male love interest in a similar vein to Lena and Emily, ergo gay representation. That and my other more personal issue.

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Sure, everything can still be ambiguous if you take all the context away. this works with everything lol. what a blanket statement that accomplishes nothing.

Since you’re missing the context, sure.

Which is explained further in Bastet…?

Did you read Bastet? I still get the strong feeling you haven’t.

Just because you, personally did not like it =/= bad.

Just telling you the lore is slow. no need to flip out.

Just because I can’t does not mean they don’t exist.
your attempts at validating some points here rest solely on me finding the evidence for… I’m certain the burden of proof that they dont exist lies with you here, given you make the original claim.

but also:

Just covering all your bases here are we?

Jack is a gay Man in this story.
The lore team developed this many months ago, I suggest you accept this, as it was and never has been stated he was ever anything else.
Deal with it.

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Blizzard doesn’t just decide one existing character is trans.

They knew this all along but since they’re only releasing lore bits by bits, it takes time for us to learn about it.

A lot of players from this community pushed their own assumption when it comes to the characters’ gender (and sexuality), unfortunately. That’s why it’s so difficult for them to accept and acknowledge a gay / bi character like Soldier.

Had Blizzard known it was such an issue in 2019, they would have released exhaustive biographies at the game’s release so people that are not fond of LGBT heroes would know what character was a part of it (and maybe not playing them ever ?).

To me, it’s not an issue if we happen to learn that “X” hero is trans. Overwatch is a futuristic game where LGBT discrimination doesn’t exist anymore. They overcame this long ago but since it’s still problematic in real life, some players from the OW community make a big deal out of it, sadly.

Overwatch still highlights another form of discrimination existing in their universe which is Humans VS Robots (Omnics) and it’s kinda interesting. I guess that’s what’s gonna happen in our future if we ever discover the existence of aliens.

LGBT discrimination and racism will completely disappear just so the hate shifts towards aliens (failing to accept that they’re different from us, again).

Edit : If I had to guess what hero is trans, I think there’s none so far but maybe Moira could be gender fluid. As far as Zarya is concerned, I think she’s both straight and cisgender but she doesn’t care at all about the “feminine” representation our society forced on women.

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Well, first off, no. Two people kissing is hardly a ambiguous image, compared to the arms around the shoulder hug that we get. What you are in essence saying is that all that matters with representation is saying that a character is something, not actually showing it. And what I am saying is that what Blizzard did is a cop-out. They are able to have a gay male character without actually having a real display of male homoromantic love. Jack’s relationship is in the past, he is over romance (Jack explicitly says as much in Bastet) and he makes it fairly clear that he has no intention of a retirement.

No, what makes it bad is the fact that the “foreshadowing” was a single panel in a comic two years before the reveal where you can’t tell at all what is in the picture. Not to mention, again, the picture is completely ambiguous.

No, but the fact you can’t name them shows just how under represented they are. I can name several masuline gay men in fiction; Shiro, Steve Cortez, Kung Jin, Apollo, Midnighter and Sir Hammerlock. I cannot do the same for feminine gay men.
And no, I do not have the burden of proof. Firstly, because you cannot prove a negative. And secondly, you are the one making the claim that feminine gay men and butch lesbians are

You have the burden of proof to show that this stereotype is as prevalent as you claim nowadays. And again, using real people does not count since they are real people.

He is, and my point is that as gay rep, he does not do anything new. He is very safe, compared to literally any other male character in Overwatch except Lucio, but even then Lucio is risky in that he could actually have a relationship written for him.
And I have accepted it. Doesn’t mean I can’t point out the flaws in their decision.

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This is not what I am saying, but that’s why you preface it with 'in essence to force your own point across.

From your previous posts I think you’re just upset that Morrison isn’t Bi.

The man died? we don’t know when this relationship exactly was or when it ended, but the man in question faked his own death, so anything from his previous life (except an old friend who has also faked their death, Ana) would have been left behind.

I’m sorry they didn’t foreshadow it well enough for your personal liking?

Which has been clarified, please stop bringing this up it’s a dead point.

It doesn’t, as again, my personal experiences are not the global consensus, and neither are yours.

That’s not how burden of proof works…
I don’t have to raise a negative if you can’t prove your point has weight to begin with, which so far you haven’t, only once you provide proof does it swap to being on me.

I will if you make claim earlier, because as it stands your claim was first, and frankly I don’t think you will provide proof.
but also way to be a hypocrite x

Well I’m sorry that’s the way it seems to you. Perhaps you should find a different avenue to vent through as this rep will not change. You’re going to have to grow up and deal with the reality of it at some point.

I still fail to see the flaws.
the picture was clarified.

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There’s nothing “masculine” about Zarya. She has make-up on and her nails are done in skins where her hands are revealed.

She’s a soldier, so we wouldn’t see her in a dress. But I really don’t see how she’s “masculine”. Yeah, she’s buff, but that’s due to her being an athlete. Weight lifting isn’t inherently masculine.

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As I said, I don’t think she cares about what people see as “masculine” or “feminine”. She’s above the social codes and people’s expectation.

Still doesn’t mean she likes those just because she’s a woman.

None of the other female heroes (or male heroes) wear a proper “dress” as their standard battlefield outfit (other “skins” don’t count).

Never said she was, I just stated that she may completely not care about what people (like us) consider as “feminine” or “masculine” behaviour or appearance.

True and neither is wearing a dress or make-up and having their nails done inherently feminine.

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OK, how about this. You are inadvertently saying that. By saying that Jack Morrison’s reveal is not ambiguous WITH CONTEXT, you are saying that context is more important than actually showing it. Hence my point.

Very nice, you don’t argue my point and instead go after a separate opinion, which again you have only insulted me for instead of putting up a argument as to why that is a bad opinion.

Very well done.

My whole point with that was to show just how poor/easy a choice it was to make Jack the gay rep in OW. I know his story and why he chose to gave up romance, my point is that that’s what makes him a bad choice compared to McCree, Baptiste, Lucio or Rein.

Who’s ignoring context now?

Alright, so you attack my opinion again without actually disproving it, that does nothing. Tell me how this foreshadowing was done well?

How was it clarified? Again, saying that a picture is unambiguous if you have story behind it does not make the picture itself unambiguous. That’s not how art or story telling works, not with romance at least.

Nope, we are not. That still does not change that you have not come up with any examples of popular fictional feminine men. Hard-mode; try finding one’s who aren’t played for laughs half the time.

I’ve listed off several very popular masculine gay male characters in fiction. So here; Steve Cortez, Sir Hammerlock, Kung-Jin, Apollo, Midnighter, and Captain Raymond Holt. These are very popular examples of masculine gay men. These directly go against your position that femme gay men are a prevalent stereotype in culture. If you can come up with more popular fictional feminine gay men, I will concede your point.

And once again, just because real gay celebrities act very feminine does not mean that they are stereotypes. Saying a real life person is a stereotype is, with the best word in the world, problematic.

So how does Jack being gay seem to you? Unsafe, brave? Explain how, instead of making more personal attacks against me. That’s all you have been doing thus far.

And I know it won’t change, I have never thought that it would change. All I am doing is critiquing how it was done and giving my opinion on how both gay rep and Jack’s sexuality could have been done better… Do you look at critics pointing out flaws in movies and say “Look at this guy, he thinks he can change the plot just by complaining”.

Because this is what you are saying.

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Sexuality isn’t that deep - While I don’t stand with the people pushing for more “representation” because they’re never happy when they get what they want, I don’t like how people are complaining that "oh, they decided it to be wOkE ". It’s just lore and it should be treated as something so big. They didn’t need to drop hints or “reveal” it early on. It’s just someone’s love life. What is it to you, or to anyone else?

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While I can agree with what you are saying to a extent, I feel that there is still validity in critiquing how something was executed, and in the case of Jack it was not done well.

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Why don’t you think it was done well?

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I suppose it is not so much that it was not done well, only that it could have been done much much better.
Now, this may come of as that “never happy” type of complaining you mentioned, but I’ll try to explain it.
The way that they showed that Jack was gay, they were able to avoid actually showing a male homoromantic relationship (aka, a gay relationship). They made his partner be very far in his past, they have the only picture of them together is them barely hugging as opposed to kissing or embracing. Overall, it’s passable, I suppose.
But compared to what could have been done, it’s very disappointing.
Again, Baptiste, McCree, Rein and Hanzo are all male character who defy stereotypes just as well as Jack does and could have easily been written to have a current male relationship that could be shown in game. That’s more my problem, it’s not as good as what it could have been.
My second critique is more of a personal opinion; that Jack would have been great bi male rep. We really don’t have much in the way of positive rep, and those that are positive, as usually just barely. Like Constantine, who is a complete antihero. As it is, really none of the OW cast make for good rep, and certainly not in the way that Jack would’ve. This is definitely personal, however.

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I think this is definitely more of a personal issue to you, but Blizzard can’t cater to the desires of the individual player. If you want to see a gruff, stoic, bisexual soldier you might want to look into other avenues. It’s unrealistic to expect characters to represent someone or something. I’ve never felt represented by any character simply because I don’t define myself by my ethnicity, sexuality, gender or anything that isn’t my personality and my interests. I don’t need someone who is what I am to be happy. I just want a good game with a good story, and a good game with a good story is what I got.

Overwatch is a video game, not an in-depth cartoon series. I can’t think of any character whose love life has been explored further than a mere hint or explanation, except Tracer. Her entire section of that comic was her looking to buy a scarf for her girlfriend, then giving said scarf to her girlfriend. All very sweet, but it also made sense. She is actually with that woman, unlike Jack who was once with Vincent, but not anymore.

Mercy x Genji is mere speculation with the scarce hint, we know Ana was with someone at some point, Ashe and McCree were together in the past, and that’s all we know, and we now know that Soldier and Vincent were once together, too. It wasn’t badly done at all. It was handled more or less just like the majority of the other relationships in the game.

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Well, that’s my point.
There is nothing for bi-men period, it’s all hypersexual villains like Vamp or flirts like Constantine. Jack would have been a breath of fresh air is my point.

That’s good for you, but it doesn’t really disprove my point. Just because that is what works for you doesn’t somehow make my point about representation invalid, especially given that the OW devs and writers themselves have mentioned how important diversity is to them.

And while I recognize your point about it being handled as well as the other characters relationships, that kinda proves my point. Outside of Lena and Emily, all the other relationships are not nearly fleshed out enough.
And my point would be why not have a on screen relationship between two men like Lena and Emily?

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Diversity is important to Blizzard, yes, but that doesn’t mean that they’re going to make every single type of person under the sun. That’s impossible. It’s a case of people never being happy with what they’re given and demanding more. Nothing is ever good enough. But that is the truth of the world - nothing is perfect, and it never will be perfect because no one has the same idea of what would make the world perfect to them. I would be perfectly happy with a bi man either added to the game or revealed at some point, truth be told. But it isn’t a big deal to me either way because it’s just a game, and especially in this day and age, there are many gay and bi characters that are popping up all over fiction, and they will continue to do so.

I understand why you would have liked Jack to be bisexual, but I’ll be lenient here. Maybe someone else is. Who knows. Reaper could be. Reinhardt could be. McCree could be. Hanzo could be. Pretty much any of the male characters except Jack could be, even Torbjorn who has been married to a woman for who knows how long. Most of the characters’ sexualities just haven’t been highlighted, and that’s ok. Maybe some will be in the future, and I reckon they will. Some may never be. It all depends on what actually makes sense to be shown in the Overwatch story. Sexuality plays a tiny part in the lore - in fact, aside from relationships such as Ashe and McCree’s, the other relationships don’t really have much of an effect on the game, not even Tracer and Emily’s because Emily is just a normal woman. Ashe and McCree’s relationship does simply because of how their relationship came to be, and how they are with eachother in the present. I would like it if another character’s relationship was highlighted more than simply a hint or an explanation - I find it entertaining on a personal level, as I do with the rest of the lore. But it is still just a game, so to expect that is a waste. When it comes up, however, I enjoy it. Even if it is just a small hint or explanation.

You’re acting as if the devs won’t ever publish another piece of lore ever again, and that simply isn’t the case.

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Probably reaper… Idk
Oh missunderstood.

Thought we’re talking about getting gay

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I know they aren’t going to be able to make every person under the sun, but it’s hardly wanting every character to want a good guy who is also bisexual and not characterized some kind of lechery. Because that really hasn’t happened.

My argument is that all of those characters have either already been done and do not help represent bisexual men, or are not exactly great looks for bi men in the first place. McCree, Rein, Reaper and Hanzo especially. And Torb isn’t great for a bunch of reasons.
And I feel that I’m more critiquing and pointing out a missed opportunity, rather than saying they won’t ever publish lore again.

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Look, you really are just looking for things to complain about at this point. I can’t help you.

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