I don't want 2-2-2 if it means 2 off-tanks or 2 off-supports

One of the biggest problems with forced 2-2-2 is that having two off tanks or two off healers isn’t really any better than quad dps.

I’d rather run a solo Orisa or Winston over two off tanks every time. A D.Va/Hog combo without a shield is just two big ult batteries and no protection for their team. I’d also rather run a solo Moira over a Lucio and Zenyatta for healing.

2-2-2 will just create problems if the main tank and main support roles aren’t forced too.


Would that be ideal? No. Would it be better than 3 or 4 DPS? 100%


Two off supports is completely viable. It’s actually been meta at the high level several times.


I feel like it’ll also create this whole, “can one of the two tanks switch to shield tank?”

Instead of, “does anyone know how to rein? i can switch off DPS [or] Healer for them”

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I think it would really help if they make it so there is more than one viable main tank.


Agreed. Hopefully with how long it will theoretically take to rework the matchmaker for role queue, we’ll have more shield tanks.

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I mean, I’d rather have them nerf Rein so Orisa, Winston, and Hammond are viable. There should be more tanking styles than just big guy with shield, it’s just that Rein’s amazing kit and game-winning ult overshadow them completely.

Why is this still being discussed? Jeff Kaplan literally came on here and said “We tried it, it sucks”. And I’m inclined to agree on that. Forcing such a composition would be awful and won’t fix anything.


My friend and I run D.Va/Zarya all the time and it’s very successful for us. I think the right combo of 2 off-tanks is just fine.

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I believe it’s being discussed because there were Matchmaker changes in the PTR recently, so it’s lead to people believing they’re taking steps to see how a Role Queue Matchmaker would work.

That, and Jeff Kaplans interview sparked a lot of discussion in the beginning.

You’re silver. You can’t really say it’s a good strategy if you’re in the bottom third of the competitive sr.

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I think with the introduction of the likes of hammond and doomfist I wouldn’t be surprised we run into a meta with off-tanks and off-supports at some points.

These two are characters who can work without a shield necessarily, and have enough mobiility, excessive pressure, and decent suvivability (depending on how they’re played) in order to make it work

Lucio/Zen was meta for a bit because of how people played them. and with addition of the characters mentioned above (Lucio/Zen, Hammond/Zarya, Doom/Hog(?)) I wouldn’t be surprised if people in comp used something like that to work

What prevents you from having 2 off-tanks or 2 off-healers right now ?

Nothing. 2-2-2 wouldn’t change anything about it.

In fact, it could produce improvements on that specific point, because I believe a fair number of people playing off-tanks when some DPS are already picked, would want to play DPS themselves


MT aren’t needed to win games. Only in the very pro-scene OWL does a very strict Meta actually matter.

Why people believe that 2 OT aren’t viable is because they don’t know how to play with different comps or heros.

I play in Plat/Diamond and Zarya+Any other tank often works well due to Zarya’s kit. Similar to how D.Va’s kit also provides some heavy Utility through her mobility+DM.

If your not a pro then your whole view on ranks is laughable.


Literally the dive default combo until mercy rework made her a must pick.

Even in current GOATs, the Lucio is considered the Main healer of the three.

Also, Hammond can be main, or off.

But I agree, 222 will not fix a lot of issues, and create new, possibly worse, issues

Wait until people end up with teams like Dva / Hog or Torb / Sym with Brig / Moira.

This is why there will need to be balance changes to heroes or more reworks for heroes to make every possible combination of 2-2-2 viable.

Jeff even said as much (highlighting Brig as an example) of heroes that won’t work in many 2-2-2 combos.


And this is why I keep stressing 2Flex-2Tank-2Heal, with Mei as an available hero for Tanks, and 4 votes to unlock roles.

That way your FlexRole players can always go mainTank or mainHealer.
Your HealRole/TankRole players can always add damage with Healer/Tanks that have damage.
Or one good mainHealer in the HealRole, plus a lot of selfHealers would work.

And you “trick” selfish Tanks into going Mei. Where Mei+Dva or Mei+Batiste can block a ton of ultimates.

Also if all the Tanks+Healers think the DPS can’t do their job, or your team really really wants 4x DPS (for high tier or low tier), then just vote to unlock roles.

Thanks, Annimositty. I’m not sure why someone can’t post their own experience/playstyle without rank being called out. Our combo has been successful for us exactly for the reasons you’ve listed. :rabbit::grinning:


You do realize that forcing 2-2-2 will allow them to balance all roles/Heros around there only ever being 2 Tanks, 2 DPS and 2 Healers right?

Every Hero, in their current state, is not a reflection of what they will look like once Role Que has been released for awhile.


Well the real argument for 2-2-2 is that it allows the devs to create 3 or more similar heroes, without triplestacking those heroes becoming a problem.
i.e. AlternateReinhardt + Reinhardt + Orisa