I don't understand the Mercy logic

General Discussion
41

My experience was that no one cared until the sr exploit was easier to obtain with invulnerability. In terms of winning, rez was niche, she was never wanted on your team because she was “no aim no brain” and this made her just an “whatever” pick. The forums cared more about plenty of other things for whatever the hot topic was: 100% ana nade, across the universe hook, Fth (and it lives again), etc.

it did not. They did. They literally said they introduced invulnerability to “promote mercy to get the most value of her ultimate.” They also weighted and still do weigh rez more than healing for mercy. This isn’t a rez or mass rez problem. It’s a reward system problem.

I think that’s fine for a basic hero ish. I think Her ult was niche and that’s fine. That means if you wanted to climb, you had to become a master with a really basic hero (minus that sr issue). But instead of putting power only in her ult with invulnerability, they should have put it in her base kit to make her more reliable as a support and not just a consistent healer: That is, her support and not inherently healing could have been played better. Say she had her own fortify/shield for herself. Then Mass rez would have been reliant on her own abilities to pull off, but her main play would also benefit since “kill the mercy” would be an unreliable strat on the enemy team.

plenty of people including myself complain over valk. It’s back to the same place as mass rez was before. There are some people who complain, but other issues are more pressing. Moreover, just because people dont complain, doesn’t mean its not an issue. Sombra had the worst sr exploit and people didnt complain… it was still an issue.

i don’t have to support that decision. They never should have let valk hit live without extensive testing and longer study of the LOS & no spawn rez mechanics.

they could have also realized what the actual problem was.

they also said she was fine on release with valk 2.0s first round of nerfs…

but just healing. She offers none of the damage, or utility of other healers.

if she isn’t good in bronze, that’s a big signal of issues imo

which is why the healing is almost equal with her low 50 hps.

so in other words… even without mobility… other healers give as much healing as mercy plus damage and utility. Mercy offers you one.

If mercy isn’t doing objectively the best in silver and bronze, i take great issue with that. Either Ana is too easy to get value, or Mercy is too hard. Ima assume it isn’t on ana.

Plat is a hodgepodge of places so her rate being 50 is fine ish except when compared to mercy. Ana is supposed to be difficult to get value from. It isn’t on just her, but her team. Mechanics aren’t all an ana needs. So I take issue with her being objectively getting more value than mercy in plat and lower especially silver and bronze. Again: either ana is too easy to find value, or mercy is struggling to find hers and I don’t think it’s on Ana.

Mercy had one: Consistency. That was why she had mass rez. It was to add to being her niche of consistency. Her use was niche, not her role. That’s not the same. That is, utility from lucio? Murder aid from zen? Or healing consistency from Mercy? That was her niche. Not “Pocket specific dps”.
Her choice was niche, not her expectation.

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42

Lacks utility? She has rez and damage boost. Those both have huge utility.

43

The dominant healer in low ranks is Moira. Moira is even easier to get value out of than Mercy, but the value tapers off drastically in platinum and above when DPS become able to play better and don’t duel into Moira and feed.

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I feel rez isn’t needed in midfight if she has 60 hps… she didn’t need it before, other healers don’t need it, and just like before, if no one dies, she can’t use it. Good Mercys, just like any good support, don’t need rez because people don’t die carelessly.
Damage boost is not the same level of consistency as other utility. She offers some Utility but no where near the level of other supports: Speed boost for all team members, Barriers, Armor, or her almost counterpart: orb. 30% dmg boost, versus 180% dmg received. Mercy’s potential, is capped in her base play.

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45

I disagree. I think Moira should be the gold to plat queen. Moira is dominant until Gold. This is where Mercy isn’t even second, but 3rd picked. I think Mercy should be picked bronze to gold. Ana shouldnt be showing up until Diamond as the dominant healer. But Ana is here rocking Gold.
In which case Moira and Mercy both need to be looked at (I personally just think Dva shouldn’t eat moira orbs and heal through barrier should have never left for moira).

1 Like
46

I mean, this may be true. But then you’d try to give her something else on E, and either then she’d be overpowered again (if it was powerful on the level as Rez) or she’d be even blander than she is now (if it wasn’t). Rez is her current most bursty ability; take it away and she has nothing bursty at all.

Rez sure does. That’s most of her utility. Damage boost is great, though; don’t underestimate it.

Moira would have to be totally rebalanced for this to be true, because Moira is absolutely devastating in low rank where she’s almost impossible for DPS to kill. She has SO MUCH value in low rank that the two heroes would have to be totally changed on major levels for Mercy to be better in low rank. She has a better shot in medium ranks honestly.

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I don’t think she needs anything “bursty” for her design. Her role was consistency. My thought, since orisa was released, was that she have her own Fortify. Mercy is about consistency, but her GA is restricted to others and she has to sacrifice her healing/supportive role if she wants to defend herself as it is now. So I thought a fortify would let her have more autonomy in her own survivability for when she is either alone, or midfight when she the choice between saving herself means letting her teammate die. Again, the idea was to add to her design as a “consistent” healer. Her healing beam doesn’t need to be 75hps to do that. She just needs to live without the “either or” requirement.

But I’ve seen others suggest a “pacify.” I’m just personally, not big on giving her a CC since that’s not really imo her role or design.

I don’t underestimate dmg boost. But it’s no zen orb. And again, rez is dependent on teammates dying. If you dont die at the poke n choke / midfight, you aren’t using rez: that is, you aren’t using your utility.

I think 90% of it is how hit scan dependent the game has become tbh. There aren’t lower skill heroes to use and they werent that hot to begin with. Moira is the heal symm lower ranks always wanted. But I think 50hps is why Mercy is just not good. We saw that her healing tanked with flat 50 hps all around, but I feel that valk just now fills the healing need mercy used to be able to do anyway. That is, Valk isn’t an “ult fight” ult. So she’s healing damage not being done by hard ults (because people can’t be healed through nano blade, etc) with valk. This should be done just by her normal play then, like it used to be. I feel valk is just padding her healing stats. I’d rather her last buff had been to 60 hps in base play and 50 hps in valk to promote dmg boost and pistol use.

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Because Mercy went from the most popular hero in the game (even while she was garbage with her initial release. She was the most played hero from release all the way up to her rework) to being a 1% pick rate in GM. That says quite a lot about how players feel about her since the rework.

Even while she was considered F-tier in GM, she still had a 5% pick rate, which is an actual healthy pick rate. It shows that she’s just not wanting to be played by people anymore, especially if you’re saying she’s balanced, she should have a healthier pick rate again. And she doesn’t. Even people who main Mercy have been playing her much less, such as Vale and EeveeA.

They’ll even say she’s statistically balanced, but why play her when the other healers do her job better.

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49

I think Mercy is fine and 50 hp/s is why we have a viable Ana and Moira (as much as Moira is). That’s the main reason I’m against it.

She had to give up some of her base power to have rez on E, since she originally had no E ability. That’s where the 10 hp/s went.

50

The debate is that the side with brains wants Mercy just to be in line with other main healers which she was with flatline 60hps healing and the other side wants to change Valkyrie into Hide ‘n’ Seek and for some reason have this idea that it isn’t bad or that high tier players didn’t complain about it on daily basis making constant moth jokes because it was such a terrible experience.

1 Like
51

Not everybody is for Mass Res and Mass Res wasn’t only a hide and seek game. The only time a Mercy hid was when team wiping ults were coming that she couldn’t outheal anyway. Why stand there healing something you won’t outheal instead of staying out of fire and resurrect the team after a wiping combo?

Now, there were some Mercy players who hid just because they had res, which was really bad and a reason they were lower rank in the first place, but Mercy never had to hide unless it was absolutely necessary. And to this day you’re not going to sit in a lost fight, so nothing changed there. She just can’t punish the enemy for not paying attention to her res.

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Really? Because I remember her being OP and a must-pick for the entire time between Mercy 2.0 was created and the 50 hp/s nerf.

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At 50 hps she’s more comparable to zen than ana in power. So valk needs to go and she needs a mercy trans, or 60hps back.
Ana was viable with 60 hps mercy. She was not with moth meta but no healer was.

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Don’t bring up Mercy 2.0 because that’s just a poor strawman fallacy as that was OPAF, but Mercy with 60hps was statistically in line with other supports, it was just that her damage boost was necessary in Grav+Dragon meta so you could counter Zenyatta’s Trans. She also had the highest synergy out of all the heroes in that comp Hanzo and Zarya included which made her a must have meta pick, but that meta was dismantled instantly when they took away the damage boost effect on projectile ultimates and nerfed Zarya’s Grav overall.

So yeah: She needs value that’s equal to flatline 60hps healing

2 Likes
55

I sense overpower hangover!

Mercy’s power level is fine. It’s certainly a lot better than Moira is in higher ranks. She will be overpowered at 60 hp/s unless you drain a lot of power from the rest of her kit, and that will just make her more boring because she’ll have less to do.

She’s balanced now. You guys just want her to be OP again because that’s what you were used to. Or rather, you’re used to how she feels at being overpowered and she feels weak because you’re not used to playing a balanced hero.

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Why? Again, she was fine with ana at 60hps before her rework, in fact, she was buffed to 60hps because of ana. And that’s because the devs and community chose to make Mercy healer based. Instead of giving her utility, we wanted her to heal. So let her heal, or give her a team based, non conditional utility. Rez is dependent on someone dying. Sleep dart and nade are not. So Mercy needs something to make her utility, or back to healing.

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57

I don’t think she was fine before the rework. Immediately before it, there was a growing realization that, at best, Ana was only really good in masters/GM, and realistically Mercy might be a better pick up there, too. And Ana’s winrates were pretty bad even in high rank. So I think Mercy was overpowered even then.

I don’t like the idea of one mandatory healer you play in low ranks, one mandatory healer you play in middle ranks, and one you play in high ranks, either. For one thing if I end up with Mercy at my ranks you can count me out as a support ever again, and for another that means the lower two healers are totally worthless to learn as you cannot ever play them if you get better.

Anyways with her being balanced (really, the support category balance is great right now) I’m kind of afraid of rolling the dice on a rework that could give us Mercywatch again.

58

People need to understand with the current mercy she relies on the team more than before. So either you switch to help your team compensate for their failure or your team picks up their slack an play on.

59

Because that’s oversimplifying the issue.

There are also a number of Mercy players who are content with her state, or at the very least just want minor tweaks instead of the grand overhaul that the “extremists” (for lack of a better term) would prefer.

60

Big rez was never really OP, in all honesty.

Valk is used to start fights, to clean up after fights, or to GTFO from a lost fight. If you’re using it for risky rez’s that’s likely to cause more problems than help and if you go attack helicopter Mercy you’re not healing your team, even if killing the enemy Widow is hilarious.

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