I dont understand OTHER Mercy Mains

General Discussion
62

Agree to an extent, but Moira can only damage and heal, Mercy can heal or damage, plus rez and damage boost

And no other support can erase a Widow or Hanzo pick at the start of a team fight either

63

Being able to damage boost someone else doing damage is not the same as doing damage yourself.

Say that every character is a cupcake machine.

Mercy outputs no cupcakes.

Zen outputs 1 cupcake per second.

Reaper outputs 5 cupcakes per second.

No amount of mercy boosting Reaper’s cupcakes per second will make her produce cupcakes.

Even if she doubles his cupcake output, she is not outputting cupcakes.

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64

Like i said before almost like rezs should be earned, almost like an ult…

65

I do love getting pistol mercy on my team, but I think most would argue that Mercy isn’t really supposed to be putting out damage.

Also, erasing a single pick is not inherently as valuable as being able to kill or stop the healing of a group of people like you can with nade - the utility of Ana’s abilities are incredibly good compared to Mercy’s very single use, niche ability.

Also Res is just so inherently unreliable and hard to pull off, it really pales in comparison to Moira and Ana’s much more reliable utility - which is funny, since everyone is arguing that Mercy is balanced because she outputs lower but more reliable healing.

66

This makes sense and I respect your opinion, but I don’t think she should be the only primary healer of the game. There is not a tank that is a primary tank for example, orisa and rein can both be primary tanks. I do agree mercy is underpowered at the moment though and should still have situations in high ranks where she is a better choice than Ana or moira. But before that she was superior to ana in all situations and that made picking ana troll pick. I also just want a point out that Ana is not viable on all ranks either , she is very hard to play and doesn’t do well on lower ranks, just look at her win rate there. I think it makes sense that the easiest healer should do well in low ranks, but the more skilled healer should do well in high ranks. But mercy doed need some buffs still so she doesnt just trade places with ana with one being a muct pick and the other being a throw pick. Ideally they should both be viable and picked and chosen based on comps and maps. Thanks for the response, I love discussing this stuff in a mature way and you did just that so I appreciate it :slight_smile:

67

Considering the usual suspects that she damage boosts, her damage boost is far more useful than the damage Ana/Moira put out on their own, with the exception of Ana’s Bionade being tremendously useful.

68

That’s why i said ‘or’, the other supports don’t have as hard a time doing both as she does, i’ll give you that, but it is still an option, plus damage boost is still good from my perspective

I avoided comparing to Ana as i do think Ana has better healing and utility, but Moira has no utility at all, just damage or healing

69

I have to disagree damage boosting someone is putting your trust into someone elses hands it does not guarantee a pick.

70

I think what you’re implying is that my intent is that she should be the only ‘good’ healer, and that’s not at all what I’m saying - When I say she’s the only primary healer in the game I’m only saying that she, of ALL the healers, is the only one that is LIMITED in what she can do. When you play any healer on the roster in Overwatch, the only one where you are not outputting DPS at the same time as healing is Mercy. Ergo, she is the only ‘Primary Healer’, because her only job is healing. All the other healers have small secondary jobs. They should still all be good, powerful, and balanced healers - however, they have other aspects to their kit beyond healing. That’s all I’m saying by calling her a primary healer.

Mercy shouldn’t be so strong she’s a must pick, but as she stands she is a lopsided and weak healer who cannot be viable at high levels of play when you compare her statistically or potential healing output to other healers, and that’s just messed up. She should be balanced, not relegated to the position of a low level character simply because she was OP for so long.

Mercy needs to offer strong, reliable healing but ALSO be easy to kill because that is the counter to her. With having Valk in her back pocket making her tough to take down she’s both hard to kill in a mid game fight and boring to play. She is, all around, just in a bad spot right now, to both play as and play against, IMO.

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71

That’s kind of the nature of a team game, and when someone who is reliably landing shots is damage boosted, it’s a hell of a lot more oppressive to the enemy team than an Ana putting out slow and low damage or Moira’s ridiculously low chip damage…both having zero crit potential.

72

Moira’s utility is that she has fade, which makes her invulnerable for .8 seconds. That is an ability that is outside damage or healing, and is a utility ability. Mercy’s utility ability by comparison is Guardian Angel, which requires a team mate to be visible for you to use - you can’t even use it naturally to escape without having someone in LoS. Moira can fade at any time.

She’s very reliant on her team, she’s very weak on her own, because she’s supposed to be the strongest healer. That’s why she’s a glass cannon. Now, she’s a glass cannon without any power.

73

This does make a lot of sense and I see your point. I think rez is what’s keeping the devs from making her easier to kill or giving her stronger healing. I truly think it would be best for mercy in the long run if rez was just removed and her healing was buffed up and she got a better ultimate. I don’t know what that ultimate would be if not mass rez, but anything would be better than her current ult. I mean her having valk but still just doing 50 HPS during valk is really silly. Like a lot of mercy players have said valk is her just doing what she was already doing really.

74

From a balance perspective, if:
Reaper outputs 5 cupcakes
And Reaper + Mercy outputs 10 cupcakes
Then she has at least some stake in those cupcakes.

But realistically speaking, Mercy’s damage boost was never even close to any other support’s damage numbers.
It’s more like
Reaper outputs 25 cupcakes by himself.

Reaper + Zen outputs 55 cupcakes and 5 scones = 60 delicious baked goods

Reaper + Moira outputs 40 cupcakes and 20 scones = 60 delicious baked goods

Reaper + Mercy outputs 26 cupcakes… but my subjective preference is that she shouldn’t make more scones than Moira, so let’s just have her make 19 scones… 26+19 = 60 baked goods, even though basic math says otherwise, because why have balance when you can have hierarchy.

And from a game design perspective, damage boosting someone else so that they can shoot stuff and have an impact is, frankly, not a very rewarding way to go about things. It’s always better to allow players to experience their impact directly.

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75

As someone who mained this hero back when Ana was reigning supreme during Tank and Beyblade meta’s
I think she is unfun to play and has been since January becaue the only things that made her fun in her 2.0 state was the things making her OP

I think this was a horrid rework
I don’t care about balance given I haven’t played her since January for more then 4 games but I really want to go back to my favourite hero, the one I fell in love with back during the healer draught, but I can’t do it now, I bought this game to feel heroic and Mercy even before this nerf no longer felt heroic but rather like the teams eternal sidekick. As someone who can play the other supports Ana, Zen, Brig and Moira this is not a support problem this is a mercy problem

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76

This is exactly why ‘but she can damage boost!’ will never be an adequate counterargument. Thanks for getting it! Also:

Exactly this, and exactly why Valk, the ult of doing exactly what you were doing before, is so freakin’ boring and lame compared to her old Mass Res.

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77

I think if we think back to Mercy 1.0 she was balanced (with her 60hps & w/o invincible rez) She was mobile and depended on her team. Her ult would reward her to fix her mistakes and try to protect her team again. With the rework they took that away with Valk she dosent need her team to survive she can simply fly away without being punished for it if her team dies. Mercy mains literally asked for an E and got an entire rework, an E to Mercy 1.0 and some Los fixes would have had her in a good spot.

78

Difference of opinion on utility then, i consider it something that aids your team or effects the other team in a fight, fade is survivability and a good one, but once used she has a decent cool down and is vulnerable, yes Mercy relies on her team to utilise hers, so caught alone absolutely fade is better, but in a team fight i’d take guardian angel as it can be used often to move around

i play casual and didn’t think Mercy needed the healing nerf, but i don’t think anyone needs a nerf really, i am old school and play the hand i am dealt, have no main and will switch characters depending on the situation

79

I’ve seen a lot of great options on the forums for how to incorporate mas res in ways that seem really smart that I have confidence that it IS an ability that can be incorporated into the game - I think that the problem is that our perception of it will need to change to allow it to exist in peace.

There are so many fast exchanges now and high speed heroes who can kill Mercy before she pulls off her classic swooping Res that I think it’s kind of time to consider letting it come back and see how it plays out. It’s such a big part of her kit and it really felt like you were having an impact on the team, whereas now you feel like you’re just rewarding the idiot Hanzo for poking his dumb noggin out when he shouldn’t have.

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80

Shhhhhhh. Get your filthy reason out of here. I mean really? Really? You want to use reason in this situation? What about my personal feelings? According do my personal feelings, you are just wrong. You want to completely omit another person’s personal opinion and use reason to back an argument? Ewww, absolutely disgusting. sticks tongue out like a child

Can’t use /s hard enough.

81

The thing of it is that when you’re playing Moira you’re often getting a lot of damage as well as heals. Now, you can be getting a good chunk of damage in with massive heals, more heals than Mercy now, so you’re getting way more bang for your buck if you have a Moira on your team than a Mercy.

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