There is a trend that people just ignore statements from pros and coaches or act like they are dumb.
Orisa is a problem, Widow is a problem, both statements are backed up by pros and coaches.
From the some of the community you hear statements like: Just be creative, git gud, just switch
If contenders, pros and coaches couldn’t figure out a way to circumvent/fix the problem, the community won’t find a way either
Why should a problem at pro level affect you? The game is balanced around the top tier
For me, their version of balance means the game becomes less fun for me. Since me and people around my skill level probably represent a more sizeable portion of the game’s players, I feel very comfortable with not listening to a thing they have to say. Most of them come across as pretentious dbags anyway so they don’t exactly endear themselves to the lower ranks imo.
Pros and coaches are people too, they are capable of biased opinions, false narratives, and pushing an agenda. If you go through pro’s streams you will literally find them complaining about every character in game.
Moreover, unlike regular ladder players, they have literal financial incentives and careers on the line. They are objectively more likely to be biased and pushing buffs/nerfs to personally help themselves.
Anyone that thinks pros thoughts on balance should be treated as gospel, obviously wasn’t around for the month Sombra saw play in OWL, and watched Tanks/Supports players collectively blow a gasket and demand nerfs to the only viable DPS(with a scorching hot 43% WR in OWL, I might add).
Yup.
Being a pro or a coach isn’t going to stop people from not liking characters.
And if they don’t like the character, they’re going to want them nerfed.
Blizzard makes the decision and if pros had so much influence we hadn’t moth meta and GOATS for so long.
Pros do not dictate how Blizzard do stuff, that’s up to them
You have to balance around maximal potential and that is present around top tier
It’s not that I don’t trust them, it’s simply the fact that the the way the game is played at the pro level is radically different from the way it’s played in Gold and Plat where most players are.
Yeah I am just going to drop this definition here:
“Insisting that a claim is true simply because a valid authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered. Also see the appeal to false authority.”
When a statement fails to provide logic and basically we have to believe it because it comes from a “pro” or a “T500” or whatever, I am not buying it. Its called being skeptical and for a good reason.
That is not a reason to cast these statement aside.
Currently is double shield meta in high gold /plat and very hard to beat if you don’t play double shield.
GM/T500 has an impact on midtiers as we can see with Bunker and double shield
I try not to trust anyone but arguments. Of course I’m not perfect and I fail a lot, but the idea is that a correct idea should stand on its own when supported by arguments, be those reasoning or information.
Why i don’t trust pros? Because of what happened in goats.
Even at the heights of goats, the dev’s pointed out that it barely existed on ladder. There just isn’t enough tank and support players who knew what they were doing, nor do they have the coordination to pull it off.
To the regular player base, the most you can expect is maybe have two or three players that will work well with you. For Reinhardt, all he needed was get atleast one more teammate to synergize with and he’ll steamroll the other team. Him getting two supportive tanks and three dedicated supports (goats) makes him extremely OP. But for the rest of the player base, all he gets each game is two workable teammates, and that’s enough to make 2-2-2 viable.
When they nerfed goats, they removed his synergy with the other heroes. It fixed goats in the pro levels. But to the playerbase that relies on their "OP"ness, the tanks/supports got wrecked and it’s how we ended up where we are now.
Goats has been the clearest example that pro gameplay is nothing like what you see outside of the top 1% and the adverse effect of balancing for them.
GM/T500 impacts mid tiers but the pro’s calling for nerfs don’t always take that into consideration.
You’ve already heard the Sombra example, underwhelming and low win rates from mid to low tiers yet she was nerfed because she posed a threat to the current GM meta and was quickly dealt with.
19 year old playing a computer game isn’t the same as a coach or pro player necessarily.
You’re just being ageist. A 19 year old could do scientific research, would you disregard their opinion simply because they are 19?
There are 19 year old mathematical geniuses. Do you disregard their findings?
You’re proving my point
My name is Sine. Angles are what I do.
On a more serious note the only one being obtuse is you.
I’m not saying they are the same. I’m saying that disregarding expert opinions and theories is the norm now so you should expect it with coaches and pro players.
Basically, it happens at the scientific and mathematical level, so of course it happens on a video game level
I guess that went over your head though, sorry
And the end of my post makes your entire reply completely unneeded.
You mean that Sombra that in all ways in OWL, actually needed nerfs and even on ladder needed nerfs to exactly that part of her kit, that was too easy, too reliable and too valuable ?
Is it sad she didn´t get compensation otherwise and better functionalities or TTK ? Yes, but that doesn´t change the fact, that Sombra was nerfed and in the right places, she just doesn´t function in no teamplay ladder, (Where even the 1%, isn´t doing any form of teamplay, to the extent of a scrim level).
I’m gonna ignore the age part, because that is stupid.
Professional OW players… aren’t “experts” at anything except playing the game. Most have never worked in games, balanced games, or designed games. They just play a specific game really well. Coaches aren’t balancing “experts” either, they are coaches.
They all know a lot about the game, no doubt; but all are prone to biases and soapboxing for personal gain.
Cute.
…and also ironic, considering I’m not arguing to disregard someone’s opinion because they are an “expert,” no matter how much you want to paint it as that.
I’m saying consider their opinion. Give them the opportunity and platform to present their argument and weigh it based on its strengths, and compare it against the data we have access to.
They aren’t automatically correct because they play OWL, regardless of whether you call them experts or not. Recent history and their wide variety of contradictory opinions has show this to be a fact.
A Pro tends to have bias to their main heroes because there’s money on the line for it. So a lot of their suggestions are quite cunning in that their buffs are effective for them on a Pro level while the nerfs for their mains tend to be negligent.
Much like in physical sports, some problems are more identical in both the pro and amateur scene and others are different.
Amateurs are more likely to be interested in an enjoyable game. Pros presumably want this too but they as it’s their job they also have money on the line and will have a conscious/unconscious bias towards things that will benefit them personally.
None of these people are necessarily right or wrong just cos they’re a pro (or not), they just have different priorities for what they think is best and what suits them best.