I Admit, I Was Wrong About MMR...Please Forgive Me

Competitive Discussion
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I played Hanzo for the first time in Season 24 and very quickly realized that the learning curve for Hanzo is extremely steep; in my opinion, it is the steepest among all of the heroes within the role of DPS, and, yes, I could be very well biased ;0). Needless to say, my SR plummeted to the depths of <500sr where even in my victories my SR would not budge and remained…<500sr; furthermore, from that abyss, a challenge began to form in my mind… and so I decided…

I decided to embark on a journey to masters from the pits of <500sr with only Hanzo.

Current stats as of the time of this post and 11 Seasons later: Season 35

-Role Queue: Current SR–1847sr from 1499sr; All Time High: 2233sr in Season 33
-Open Queue: Current SR-- 2350sr from 2067sr; All Time High: 2350 in Season 35
-Total Hours On Account Played: 1,051 hours
-Total Competitive Hours: 949 hours (90% of Total Game Time)
-Total Hours on Hanzo: 731 hours (69% of Total Hours Played)
-Total Competitive Hours on Hanzo: 533 hours (56% of Total Competitive Time)
-Competitive Win Percentage: 50%
-Total Competitive Games Played: 2,841
-Total Competitive Games Won: 1,400
-Total Competitive Games Lost: 1,394

This journey thus far has been a wild one to say the least. I never imagined that through this game I would undergo such a rollercoaster range of emotions from having to deal with victories and losses until I gave my word and full intent to this challenge…to this journey…to this game called Overwatch… why?

Because there is nothing and no one more dangerous than a man in love–he who has discovered such a deep, sincere intent and purpose born from that very love–for it will compel him to go ALL-IN with ease and with no second guessing… for to him, there is but only one choice in his mind…and that is…to go All-In…

…and I…

I fell madly in love with this game…

I surmise that this is what the legendary 5x champion Kobe Bryant must have felt when he picked up the basketball and made his first 3-point shot or the legendary 11x world surfing champion Kelly Slater must have felt when he caught and dropped in on his very first wave…and the analogies can go on and on… Nevertheless, a unique and catered culture–long discovered–was nurtured; communities gathered and shared in experiences; and, to this day, continues to thrive.

And THIS is the discovery I have recently stumbled upon…

THIS, to me, is Overwatch.

A worldwide, multi-ethnic–yet singular–culture with a community of Players of all ages who engage in this game for their own reasons. A universe where every Player’s unique performance psychology come to collide and/or compete with one another–a manifested realm of conflicting and/or complimenting decision-making. An ever-changing unique puzzle to be solved with every match…

Simply. F-ing. Beautiful.

And I desire to see the Overwatch culture thrive.

I have been a huge proponent in wanting to remove MMR from competitive play as evidential throughout all of my posts and responses/replies. My strong opinions and choices of words may have indeed offended OW developers and Players alike.

I was blind to my own justifications, emotions, back testing and research that I lost sight of what is truly important…

Here comes the pride swallowing humble pill… and believe me when I say this…this isn’t fun for me. It’s extremely embarrassing and downright shameful…and the mental and heart-felt pain from all of this is truly great and almost unbearable…

…however, my intent and desire to always strive for progression and thrive towards achieving a perfect ideal (whether I reach it or not) will and must always be greater than any pain of embarrassment and shame no matter the difficulty.

As a matter of fact, humility is the most efficient way to learn and grow. The path of humility allows you to come face to face with your own mistakes head on and gives you the opportunity to let genuine courage well-up from within you to own up to your mistakes and correct them…and, when you finally choose to… you’ll discover that this ‘great and unbearable pain’, which can feel like an eternity, was only but momentary–it cannot help itself but to flee in the presence of genuine repentance–you’ll finally be able to unveil the truth that has been ever present before you…like removing the scales from your eyes or the shackles that chained you…the old adage rings true…

I once was blind, but now I see. Once a slave, but now I’m free.

Before I (finally) share why I was wrong about MMR…

To Blizzard, the Overwatch Developers and Community of Players…

I was wrong and gravely mistaken…please forgive me…

There will always be more followers than there will be leaders. Not everyone is born or made or will have the qualities to be a leader. This paradigm is not about what is superior or inferior; in fact, this paradigm is totally okay and extremely necessary. Every role is vitally and fundamentally important to make up the WHOLE. And, holistically, it is this WHOLENESS that is what is most important.

I share this principle because the truth is…not everyone can be a Kobe Bryant, Kelly Slater, or a Top 500 Player…not everyone is meant to be. **HOWEVER, every single Player can continually strive/achieve to be a better version of themselves and THAT is what is most important. How you achieve it and why is totally and uniquely up to you.

So go, and be whole.

I am extremely passionate about the Overwatch Culture (like basketball culture, surfing culture, etc.) and strongly desire to see this beautiful game exude exactly that. Beauty.

Yes, toxicity is present in this game (I am guilty of that as well). But do tell me, what competitive culture does not have that? They all do to some level of degree. On the other edge of this same sword, there’s also joy and growth in personal development isn’t there not? There absolutely is.

Remember, it’s not HOW you swing this double edged sword that matters most, it’s WHY you swing it and I believe we are at a precipice where Overwatch culture can become so amazingly filled with positivity, joyfulness, and even self-development.

And it starts with you. It starts with me. So let us do it together and never give up.

Finally, I have come to see the light and though I have yet to attain Masters, my account is proof that I was wrong about MMR…and the truth was always right in front of me…

  • “I’m hard stuck because of this system.”
    you want to climb rank? You have to git gud.

  • “But smurfs, cheaters, hackers, throwers, MMR and this matchmaking system is keeping me hard stuck with it’s 50% win rate and manipulative matchmaking.”
    that’s just an excuse to make yourself feel better because you haven’t accepted the fact that, to yourself, you just aren’t that good enough (yet) and there’s nothing wrong with not being that good yet because YOU CAN git gud. Never give up.

  • “But this current 50% win rate outcome derived matchmaking system isn’t genuine, authentic competition and, therefore, is not an accurate reflection of your skill”
    though this may still hold true in defining what is competition, MMR is something far greater than competition itself…MMR is not a reflection of your skill, rather, it is an insanely accurate reflection of your own performance as a whole in how you perform within an ever-changing set of circumstances derived in a competitive-like environment that is synthetically and/or organically designed

  • “But my back testing shows a series of wins/losses like clockwork that proves the algo is working and the matchmaking system is rigged”
    Okay, sure, it’s “rigged”, “manipulated”, etc… So what? Look at my account. Did I not climb rank by gitting gud? I sure did and THAT is all the proof I need

Let me reiterate the proof if you’ve read down this far:
-Competitive Win Percentage: 50%
-Total Competitive Games Played: 2,841
-Total Competitive Games Won: 1,400
-Total Competitive Games Lost: 1,394

50%!!! The algo sure is working to the TEE. AND, I climbed rank!!! From <500sr to 2233sr in Role Queue and as high as 2350sr in Open Queue!!! …with ONLY HANZO.

You are your rank because you deserve it. Period.

You want to be in Silver? Play like and do Silver Player things.
You want to be in Diamond? Play like and do Diamond Player things.

You want to be in Masters and above? You need to earn it.

Not every talented lover of basketball will make it to the NBA.
Not every surfer will win back to back world title championships.
Not every Player will make it to Masters/GM/Top 500 and compete in Overwatch League.
Why? Because there will always be someone that is better than you, has more resolve than you, more grit than you, etc., and that is totally okay! Just never give up and never wallow in defeat, rather, press on and overcome every single time.

Some are gifted and naturally talented Diamond, Masters/GM Gamers/Players and many, like me, just simply suck…

BUT!!! with GRIT, GUTS, RESOLVE, DETERMINATION, and HARD WORK you can earn and develop those skills and possibly make it to the NBA, World Championship Title matches, and, yes, even Masters. Who knows, even Grand Masters or Top 500.

Only one way to find out and the only one stopping you is YOU.

Never give up.

So, what than is MMR?

If human nature can reflect itself in a digitized numeric metric…Match Making Rating (MMR) is exactly that. It’s not a reflection of your skill, but, rather, an insanely accurate reflection of your overall Performance when it is pitted against an ever-changing set of circumstances.

Sure, I’ll acknowledge you’ve got skills, but…

How will you perform with those skills…

  • when you have a thrower on your team?
  • when you have a leaver on your team?
  • when you’re up against smurfs, hackers and/or cheaters?
  • when your teammate is SO toxic in Voice and Match Chat?
  • when your teammate is a straight NOOB doing his/her placements?
  • when your probable odds of winning are not in your favor?
  • and the questions/scenarios/circumstances can go on and on.

How THEN will you perform?

Consider this: your answer is also the reason for your rank.

So far, I’ve been through it ALL like a hidden prince living in the midst of his people grinding, climbing, and awaiting the day to claim his rightful place, to which, I will get there. I never give up.

THIS, to me, is MMR. At least, what it’s capable of doing should you let it.

Is Overwatch a perfect game?
By no means.
Are the OW Developers and Community of Players striving to build a perfect game?
I believe with all of my heart that the answer is a resounding YES!

They are doing their part, however, it is truly up to us, the Community of Players, to do our part and build an outstanding culture.

So I challenge you, let’s build a phenomenal one together one match at a time.

–Bro (Hanzo)

p.s. I do have a life outside of this game and it’s quite balanced ;0)

p.s.s. Once again, I am sorry and I hope you’ll forgive me.

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MY BOY HAS SEEN THE LIGHT!! Hallelujah!!

Correct

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Honestly, I’ve always been one that had around a 50% rate and was overall still on the gradual upward trend. But then again, I never really cared about my rank but I did find it hilarious how quickly people tilt in overwatch.

People are free to believe whatever they want, otherwise this competitive portion of the forum wouldn’t be as entertaining as is it.

For you though, I’ll give you a clap. Good luck getting to masters and now that you’ve changed your mindset, don’t change back.

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I had you pegged as someone who was eventually going to make a “I’ve seen the light” post a long time ago, that’s why I was sure to say this in your last thread you made:

You’ve already made a post similar to this back almost a year ago:

Like I said, rank up, make a post about it, doesn’t change a thing, the matchmaker is awful and broken. Nobody thinks that it’s impossible to rank up, it’s just stupid and a horrible experience the way they make you do it.

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So you one tricked Hanzo, which made you drop into below 500SR and then grinded your way back to 2200 in 500 hours?

Thats a true Hanzo dedication, nice job lol

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Inspirational, Bro, you have what it takes, continue the climb, show everyone you can do it! Keep on the grind!

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Welcome to the club man.

Trust me it gets really fun once you accept you got a lot to work on. It’s fun theorycrafting stategies. I feel like when I play time is slowing down, if that makes sense.

Lately I have been able to even time a bap window for rein firestrike uncoordinated.

Sadly the rank I’m at the Reins miss at times…but when they don’t its awesome seeing the killfeed. The little things like that! Chef kiss.

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haha unbeknownst to me, the light was already there shining on me…it just took a very long time to simply find the courage and muster up the strength to just open my eyes and see it ;0). My perception in-game and approach has already drastically changed. It’s far more enjoyable and indeed the place where every Player ought to be.

I admit…the pain of loss and my inability to accept loss–which comes from a personal event in my life–shut my eyes so tight…I wasn’t even aware of it. I am amazed at how much I’ve learned about myself through this journey.

I’m really grateful for the engagement I’ve had thus far with you and everyone via these forum posts whether in agreement or disagreement. Thank you. Not going to lie (not that I have), it was quite daunting to be as transparent as I was/am so publicly, but…through this experience thus far…well hot dayamn…

it was so well worth it.

Thanks~ Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. From here on out, the only thing that’s going to change will be my rank ;0)

It will get better because it must get better. So long as the Overwatch community bands together to provide valuable feedback and everyone on the Dev Team continues to work diligently hard, we, together, can make it better. Let’s never give up.

haha thanks… That drop was debilitating, ngl. But, I’m a sucker for a good challenge; the reward is so much sweeter ;0)

I’m on it! Stay focused, remain humble, and never give up! Beware of overconfidence because it is the silent assassin to your performance. The grind is real. One day, I’ll get there ;0)

Thanks~

strangely, it does make sense. Perhaps, it’s this massive dose of humility I’m undergoing that’s influencing my perception in desiring to learn/grow which is allowing me to read/interpret the data/environment in front of me in-game at a faster rate towards optimal decision-making. Wow, that was a mouthful, much like my post lol. Hope that made sense ;0) haha

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There’s no way. Genji, Echo, Tracer, Widow, Doomfist, and Sombra, are all deeper heroes and are harder to get value out of.

Many high achievers excel for reasons other than love for what they’re doing. I’m not sure that an obsession to achieve should be confused with love for that thing; achievement can often be driven by not so great things. Even the people crafting their own public image in real time have every incentive to be unreliable narrators in terms of their motivations. And people can and often do have unhealthy relationships with achievement. Other reasons why people achieve:

  • lust for fame
  • lust for power
  • lust for money
  • feelings of inadequacy
  • unhealthy compulsions
  • a need to prove things to others “They said I couldn’t do it. This is to silence all the haters.”
  • jealousy/envy
  • greed
  • narcissism
  • fear
  • a need for outside recognition and approval
  • desire for control
  • desire for influence

In the words of M. Bison “For me, it was a Tuesday.”

You’ve lost perspective. If you’re feeling these types of emotions relating to this forum, it’s time to pause and reflect.

You really should consider bringing this level of passion and commitment to something that rewards that passion and commitment with life-altering returns on investment. If you could bring yourself to, for instance, invest this much determination in programming or fitness or philosophy or the arts, the effects on your life would be transformative. What will you have to show for it at the conclusion of a long journey with Hanzo? By all means play OW, and play it well, but I hope you’re this jazzed about other more important things too.

Humility is not the most efficient way to learn and grow. You can be humble and completely ineffective. I’d argue that intelligence, ingenuity, effective information-gathering, mirroring, and discipline are the most important factors in growth.

Everyone here has been wrong about one thing or another. Public apologies aren’t necessary, particularly because being wrong about any of this stuff ultimately doesn’t matter.

There’s a lot to unpack here, but in most cases, universal statements like this are more harmful than helpful. Tweak a few lucky insignificant factors and even Kobe Bryant doesn’t become Kobe Bryant. And basketball is extremely dependent on height (which makes it highly luck dependent), so I’m not sure that’s a great example to include here. And we have no idea how many people could be become top 500 players. You’re mistaking aptitude with expression. Too much credence is given to “talent” vs. discipline and technique. Even if it IS the former (which I seriously doubt), a person is far better off believing /acting as though it’s the latter.

The most frustrating thing about these endless debates is all the binary thinking. You can need to improve AND the system can be poor, broken, mismanaged, non-competitive, etc. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. And yes, logically, objectively, there is absolutely such a thing as climbing being too difficult. The fact that skill expresses itself along a spectrum such that skill relates to climbing doesn’t mean that the system works well or is fair or is well balanced. Even the most broken system imaginable would still require skill in order to progress, so the skill requirement is an unavoidable constant, not proof of good design or proper function.

Wrong. A player should expect to see a much higher than a 50% winrate until they’ve reached their true rank. A player with a 50% winrate until they reach that rank is facing artificial difficulty: the climb will be both longer and more difficult than it otherwise would’ve been.

Don’t know that I buy this; it’s too simplistic a model.

No one in the top 500 got there without grit, guts, resolve, determination, and massive amounts of time spent in the process – but most importantly it was the desire to be in the top 500 responsible for getting there, and I’m not convinced that that desire in most cases isn’t flawed. For every Ninja, there are countless people with absolutely nothing to show for it when it’s all said and done. Even the idea that they learned dedication and commitment and persistence through playing OW is questionable, since the process is literally designed to be fun and escapist, and most if not all of the most worthwhile things in life have no such component.

This is just wrong. It essentially suggests that any sorting mechanism is a good one and isolates for skill. That is false. For example, a poorly constructed sorting mechanism could test for things like patience or the ability to endure some annoying process rather than skill alone. As an absurd thought experiment to illustrate this point: if new players had to reach level 3000 before being allowed to start competitive, many of the best players on the planet would not be represented in the top 500, because they’d lack the desire, not the skill, to play hundreds/thousands of hours of OW before starting the climb up the ladder. As another example, if OW had no filters or reporting features and it was the most toxic gamescape imaginable, many players would quit, and so such a ladder would test for tolerance with respect to toxicity, rather than skill alone.

Again, this is flawed logic. By this rationale, there is no such thing as a bad system so long as it stratifies participants.

Seems in general your conclusions are mostly based on feelings and emotion, you might want to temper that with more facts, logic, and meta-analysis.

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What is the TLDR here?

Is Hanzo useless?

Is MMR skewed or something you have no true control over?

I am lost.

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There is no tl:dr, its art. Read it all

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I do not want to read it all lol that is why I asked for the TLDR.

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TLDR: “Bro” here is a Hanzo OTP who used to think that the game was rigged against him. Recently he 1v1’d a GM friend ours and he realized that skill is a thing.

Not 100% sure what lead to his most recent epiphany, but he’s making great steps towards being an exceptional player.

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The game will be rigged if all you do is OTP any character and not actually play the game, or I guess it’s not actually rigging, it’s just throwing.

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I mean, you’re 100% correct… But convincing people to set aside their pride is like ice skating uphill.

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Basically impossible then.

Good thing I enjoy playing like 20 different heroes or more lol.

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I was a Hanzo/Ashe 2-trick until diamond. Getting to Masters was impossible without more hero diversity

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Something something something OW is great; the mysteries of the universe are revealed by playing Hanzo.

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The best players tend to be the ones who can flex into multiple roles/situations/heroes.

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Congrats man. I wonder how many of those hours were spent in a queue? I Did similar on Mercy a while ago now. Not quite as extreme though. Went from 1300 to 2500 in one season. I don’t even feel like I improved much, just didn’t have anything else to play and a lot of spare time. Think it took me around 200 hours.