How to nerf ashe (in multiple ways)

General Discussion
1

And this is coming from someone who’s main dps is mostly ashe. This hero is too strong and needs a nerf more than those pesky “mobile DPS” (yea those “go-to” heroes that no one actually… goes to).

  • Nerf the effectively 6 second cooldown of dynamite (The cooldown itself is 12 seconds but the burn lasts 5 seconds, so it’s really a 6 second cooldown). Realistically just make it so the cooldown of dynamite starts AFTER the 5 second burn and then just make the base cooldown slightly shorter.

  • OR nerf the fact that her hip fire is basically a hitscan storm arrow.

  • OR remove the damage from coach gun (it’s already a free “don’t dive me” ability, I don’t see why it also needs to do damage)

Or honestly… remove dynamite? This is a more extreme case but to me personally, I do not see why the ranged DPS hitscan hero, who’s counterplay is meant to be “lol play behind cover” is allowed to have an ability that… punishes people from playing around cover. But that’s just a me thing, obviously dynamite isn’t going anywhere.

My main problem is just… it’s a hitscan hero. You already have the most consistent reliable source of damage from your primary weapon. I don’t really think you also need a high damage, massive AoE burn ability that instantly puts a pause on anything an enemy wants to do because they now have to wait to be healed up through the burn.

1 Like
2

I can see a dynamite cooldown increase since it’s pretty much just free damage. Removing dynamite completely is dumb. Better to pick Cowboy in 90% of situations if that happens.

1 Like
3

Not necessarily. Never know what could replace dynamite.

4

Isn’t it ill advised to use hip fire unless you’re panicking? It basically sets you up for an eternity of the reloading animation…

1 Like
5

nah if someone’s right up on you the damage is up there. it’s better than just trying to set up right clicks

6

I have an idea for a replacement…

BABY BOB!!!

It’s a little bitty Bob that homes in on the nearest enemy, like a self-guided tire, and then attaches to the target’s ankles, inflicting minor damage and impeding movement. You can shoot at him, but he’s like a baby zombie from minecraft and moves very fast.

(Not serious)

Edit: Also, if you use the Ana halloween emote, the Baby Bob will stop for 2 seconds to gobble up the candy. However, if he’s not killed before he finishes, he gets a 2x speed boost and does double damage.

1 Like
7

I think it’s around 150 dps when you do that, which isn’t too far from Soldier’s 171. The main issue with doing it is the spread after the first two or so shots, but it’s not terrible.

8

Nah it’s good for close to mid ranged combat. If you’re only scoped most of the time you’re vulnerable because you move and fire slower

You have to get into a tempo of 2 hip fires between every scope or anything along those lines. She has enough ammo to do so. It’s useful against higher health targets like Bastion, Torb, Reaper or Mei who you will rarely two tap due to the amount of health they have

9

Not even close.

Reason for this is part of her core design in being a sustained damage over time hero.

It’s exceptionally rare for anyone to take full damage from this. And the cooldown justifies the output.

She’s pretty much built similar to Hanzo and Widowmaker, wherein they’re focused on burst damage and critical hits, Ashe is focused on sustained damage. Dynamite is just another substitute for Recon and Infra-Sight and lets her “peak” corners.

They don’t have to wait to be healed up. A burn can be cured through a healthpack, and the damage over time is so low than any attentive Support healer can negate its effect quite easily.

Dynamite does prevent health regeneration for all heroes now, but I don’t really see a problem with this as of yet.

Requires a few triggers to set up that damage first, and not hitting more than one target with it - unless its an elimination - feels like a waste because there are shorter cooldowns with much more upfront damage.

Hip-fire has higher damage per second, and usually can be used on targets within 15 meters. The more shots you make, the more inaccurate the fire becomes, however.

10

That’s still taking eyes away from the fight for that dynamite for 5 seconds.

Cool!

Nerf it!

11

Her fire rate is problematic with switching primary and secondary fire.

12

Whose eyes? Lucio heals against Dynamite just by passive crossfade healing. Same with Moira. One half second spray across the team triggers the heal over time and completely negates the effects.

It really isn’t that hard to heal virtually everything in this game.

Especially now with the higher health totals, and low cooldowns for healing abilities like Biotic Orb, Biotic Grenade, Amp, and more.

1 Like
13

That’s with those 2 specific heroes. Not every hero has passive AoE healing.

14

Ashe feels very balanced, honestly, compared to the other DPS.
Hip fire is NOWHERE near as good as storm arrow.
Coach gun is honestly trash. It’s only good for getting up to high ground. Knocking away many dive characters with it does not save her. It’s on a longer cooldown than pretty much all of their dive abilities. It’s damage is barely anything.

3 Likes
15

She’s a top 3 dps (and has been for a good bit) for a reason lol.

Her dynamite just needs to have a meaningful cooldown. Effective 6 second cooldown is almost nothing.

16

Moira’s healing is active.

But here’s an answer for every Support.

Illari’s Pylon

Lucio’s Crossfade healing and/or amp (similar cooldowns)

Moira’s Biotic Orb or primary fire.

Brigitte’s Inspire

Mercy’s Valkyrie.

Lifeweaver’s Life-Grip, Tree of Life, or rapid-tapping between targets.

Zenyatta Harmony Orb juggling, or Transcendence.

Ana’s Biotic Grenade

Kiriko’s primary fire, or Protection Suzu.

Baptiste’s Regen Burst (similar cooldowns).

It’s. Not. Hard.

Ashe’s dynamite is mainly used for charging BOB, and when used in combination can put a lot of pressure on the enemy team’s supports. Dynamite itself isn’t really threatening enough except for finishing off weakened targets, or allowing for Ashe to set up a crossfire with scoped fire and assistance to other allies.

But if you’re with a team that’s reticent on capitalizing on openings and setups by your artillery (which is what Ashe is), dynamite, by itself, isn’t threatening enough to really harm anyone. In much the same way that Hanzo’s Recon and Widowmaker’s Infra-Sight enable the to track and punish enemy targets, Dynamite works the same way; it even shares a similar cooldown to Recon.

So, dynamite has its uses, and the damage can be significant, but it is hardly concerning if no one works with the team to make it work. Though Ashe may have been released just after the Offense and Defense roles were merged, she very much is oriented towards those classic defense-role heroes; and angles the same towards Supporting the team as they do.

It has its uses. It can be useful for knocking targets into wells or pits, and does enough damage on a weakened target to kill them. So it isn’t terrible.

17

Totally agreed.

Only uses are to get to highground or to knock a monkey/ ball away from you when they’ve dropped cooldowns to come at you while you’re on highground.

Use it to put distance between you and a diving monkey on ground level? Pretty much just dead.

18

ur doin some major girlmath on dynamite cooldown here
if helix rocket did its damage over 4 seconds, you wouldnt say it had a 0 second cooldown.
you can only throw one dynamite every 12 seconds. thats that.

19

Most of these just straight up are not lmfao.

Can be set on fire by said dynamite.

Is a literal ultimate???

A 19 second CD ability, an ultimate, and a non passive healing that requires the lifeweaver to sit there and juggle.

Again… not passive and an ultimate.

Longer CD ability and also doesn’t stop the burn

Yes suzu will cleanse it but again active healing that is not passive.

Yes… not a cleanse. They still are burning.

Don’t put periods in between each word like you did something. You literally proved my point? LMFAO. And also listed literal ultimate abilities.

It absolutely is. It forces a team to stop what they are doing or forces the supports to work overtime to heal back up the 100+ points of damage during the burn across multiple people.

Certain heroes do it easier ofc. Others don’t.

So it entirely depends on what the enemy team is running.

If not dynamite, what else could get nerfed to properly take ashe down a few notches from the top 3 position she’s been sitting in for multiple seasons.

Yes… I would?

It’s not “girlmath” it’s just basic logic.

The burn lasts 5 seconds of the 12 second cooldown. Giving it an effective cooldown of 6 seconds.

The cooldown should just start after the burn is over, and then make the base cooldown shorter to compensate.

20

Because it gives her a tool to outplay other snipers who are much more lethal than her. Because she otherwise is one of, if not the worst DPS for pressure. Because it’s a good way to charge an ultimate that feels annoyingly slow to charge, especially if your aim is subpar. And most importantly, because it’s an ability that rewards good aiming and feels incredibly satisfying to hit.

If you wanna nerf Dynamite, nerf the hitbox. The thing is ginormous as is, and Dynamite is still an effective zoning tool even if you don’t hit it, and makes it feel even more rewarding if you do manage to pop it.

I do actually think nerfing hip fire is a decent idea though.