I would like for it to keep ulti-charge after dying, it is fairer for the attack team who is unlucky to have a bad combination. And random but no stack is also better. Either of them is fine.
I played this mode a lot too, but sometimes it is so cheesy in Assault and make people feel tilted.
Keeping ultimate charge would certainly reduce the amount of enemy steamrolls.
I am fine with adding a different game mode for people who want something more balanced. I would hate to lose Mystery Heroes as it is.
Yes, itâs partly because I enjoy the nonsense that can happen with weird stacks of heroesâbut itâs also because I feel like any changes that are made to increase the balance of the mode will simply move the goalposts for people to start complaining again.
For instance, itâs totally possible for one team to spawn with a healer, a tank, no repeatsâand no ranged hitscan, which means they get steamrolled by the comp that starts out with Pharmercy. Or itâs possible for one team to spawn with their only tank being Roadhog and their only support being Symmetra, getting pancaked by a team with turrets, shields, and an actual healer. Queue people coming onto the forums to complain about how unfair their matches are and how the randomness should be toned down. Or even if each team gets the same exact comp and are locked into it all match, so itâs exactly âfairâ, someone is going to get the hero that theyâre bad at or that has the hardest counter on the field, and theyâre going to be unhappy. I canât imagine any scenario where players relinquish control of their team comp and then donât complain about getting the deck stacked against them and losing when there was nothing they could do to turn the tide.
I also have two big worries about implementing a forced role ratio:
A) I am concerned that it will trap someone in a role all gameâi.e. If each team is guaranteed a healer, and that lone healer gets picked off early in a fight, then theyâre going to be forced to respawn as a healer, and this could possibly last all game. As a flex player, one of the things that appeals to me about Mystery Heroes is that I get to actually play DPS. Iâll play a healer or tank as best as I can if thatâs what Iâm assigned (and I like the tanks and healers so itâs all good)⌠But if my team is failing to peel for me or to follow up on my initiation, whether because their gamesense is not very good or because weâre up against a Looney Tunes comp that destroyed us, then oh well, that didnât work and I get to try something else now.
B) I am concerned that any limits on the team comp will create a meta in the game mode for people to start policing each other over. i.e., âNo, Symmetra is a bad support on this map, we want a healer, so run in and die until you get something usefulâ. Or âWe almost have a good 2-2-2; run in and die until we get (missing piece)â. Or someone who, say, hates playing a tank, sees that a teammate just respawned as a second tank, so they suicide into the enemy to try and get out of the role since at last they finally can, etc.
One of the reasons Iâve played almost nothing but Mystery Heroes lately is because the amount of teammates flaming each other over things is kept to a minimumâfor the most part, people understand that sometimes the RNG just doesnât go your way. Iâd be super sad to lose that because now thereâs a âmetaâ or a way to fight over who gets stuck with what role.
Tl;dr - I feel like the mode will never be âfairâ if itâs even slightly random, so IMO itâs better to leave it totally goofy and low stakes than to try and make it more serious and balanced in the pursuit of appeasing people who already donât like the mode.
[Ed:]
Not quite, because in MH, if you can make a dent in that composition, you change it. This forces strategy and prioritization, i.e. If we can take out the Mercies, we have a chance, so our newly rolled Tracer just became the top priority hero we need to protect and enable to build ult. In No Limits, you are just going to run into the same cheese comp over and over until the game is over, and thereâs nothing you can do about it.
Whatâs wrong with at least 1 healer and at least 1 tank?
Slightly balanced hahah good luck Jeff!!!
Huh, wonder what would happen if they made a Role Queue version of Mystery Heroes.
Itâs a random mode. It isnât decided beforehand if itâs winnable or not. Itâs like saying you should always be winning in poker or other games with random mechanics.
The whole point of this mode is to have fun with surprising constellations, or trying to win with those that are considered weaker (e.g. when having no healer).
Thereâs a difference between difficult, and too difficult to even bother trying to win.
Like the difference between and uphill battle, versus fighting up a sheer cliff.
I donât see your point. Adding arbitrary rules wonât fix it, because you will still have some hero combinations that are outright better than others. You would have to add so many rules (at least one tank, no hero stacking) that at a certain point you might as well play QP. If you donât try to win, thatâs not the game modeâs fault.
Like I said, even in QP, you fall into a team with no tank or healer at all. Mystery heroes is chaotic, it has to be. Why do you want to force a proper team comp into a mode that is supposed to be more chaotic than QP? What is the fun of playing this mode anymore?
Also let me give you something that your idea is super bad.
Letâs say I am DPS main, and the game start I get Tank, i am not good at Tank, but I don;t mind, maybe next time I will be Widow, maybe next time I will play Moira. Oh no, but no one in my team die, I die first and get Tank again (at least one Tank). Ok, but next time I die, there is only me as Tank, I am Tank again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again until the match end because my team play with one Tank only and a bad Tank to boost.
WHY? In the old Mystery Heroes. I have a chance to change to every hero, it is a surprise, in here, if i am unlucky, I will have the chance of 50% I will be the mandatory Tank forever if at the beginning I am the only Tank. Your suggestion sucks.
Difficult is fine.
Having almost zero counterplay is not fine.
I.e. All short range vs a multiple Pharah+Mercy.
All I want is ult charge to carry over through death. Most of the nonsense holds/snowballs would balance out if you could have a few ults as the losing team.
Perhaps rename this mode to Random Heroes and implement better balance in Mystery Heroes.
I respect that there are people who like both approaches, hell, sometimes Iâd be in for full blown random, but letâs say 90% of the time Iâd prefer and have more fun with some logic.
Either retain ult charge, or force to not stack. It will prevent cheese comp.
âAll short rangeâ can still happen even with the rules proposed. In mystery heroes, that team that is currently having an advantage regarding their composition is also in the more risky position, because each time they kill someone they might create a counter to them.
Hey Jeff! My friend and I had an idea for an alternate version of Mystery Heroes awhile back. I think we were calling it âMystery Draftâ. The basic rules were:
We designed this mode to accomplish these things:
Would love to see something like this mode in the game eventually. Cheers, thanks for posting on the forums!
It could happen, but the next spawn would be a Soldier/McCree/Sombra.
âSlightly Balancedâ hahaha xD I would definitely prefer that to the current one though.
There are two ways to go about solving this RNG inequity issue in my mind, with slightly differing philosophies. Either (A) Remove hero stacking or (B) Keep ult charge when you die. Personally Iâm leaning towards (B) because it retains the âwackyâ feel of No Limits, but doesnât punish the losing team as hard when one side gets a comp advantage.
First, it was not my idea. I simply said keep the rules simple. Second, min and max rules do not have to be set in stone, they can be used as statistical weights to improve the overall experience. Ok, so you died as a tank. It doesnât have to make you a tank next time, but the next person to die will get it.
Just saying it doesnât have to be completely random. Especially with the initial picks, where you often do not get a single healer from the start of Mystery Heroes.