How to Fix Genji

General Discussion
1

Goals:

  • Make Genji feel good to play as

  • Make Genji feel good to play against

  • Make Genji balanced

  • Shift his power from Dragonblade (and Nanoblade) to his base kit.


Cyber-Agility
  • No change

Creator Comment:
Cyber-Agility is in a perfect state and doesn’t need and improvements nor nerfs.


Primary Fire
  • Damage increased from 28 to 30

Creator Comment:
Genji needs higher damage to have a stronger base kit and it makes him have more consistent and rewarding combos.

  • Projectile speed increased from 60m/s to 65m/s (only for primary fire)

Creator Comment:
Primary fire is supposed to be used in long to mid-range engagements but it is being neglected by Genji players because of its low fire rate and the slow projectile speed, by making his projectile speed faster it would make the ability more usable and feel stronger.

  • Fire rate decreased from 3 shurikens per 0.95 seconds to 3 shurikens per 0.90 seconds

Creator Comment:
Primary fire is supposed to be used in long to mid-range engagements but it is being neglected by Genji players because of its low fire rate and the slow projectile speed, by making his fire rate faster you would be able to shoot more often and get more damage done in a shorter period.


Secondary Fire
  • Damage increased from 28 to 30

Creator Comment:
Genji needs higher damage to have a stronger base kit and it makes him have more consistent and rewarding combos.

  • Spread angle increased from 9 to 12

Creator Comment:
The spread angle of Genji’s secondary fire was too consistent and made his shots easier to hit, which made his overall damage increase and made him get his ult a lot faster, Genji by design is a high skill hero that is hard to master making his combos easier to hit makes him easier by a large margin.

  • Fire rate decreased from 0.75-second recovery to 0.65-second recovery

Creator Comment:
This is a revert of his latest nerf which made him feel slow, clunky, and overall feel bad to use, especially for a hero like Genji which is a fast pace hero.


Swift Strike
  • Reset only happen if the Genji has either: dealt more than 50 damage to the enemy that died, hit the enemy with Dash (Swift Strike) before he died or got the final blow on the enemy

Creator Comment:
Originally I didn’t want to change Dash (Swift Strike), but after thinking about it for a while I realized that when a Genji gets a random Dash reset for an enemy that he dealt low damage to, it not only feels inconsistent it also feels bad for the enemy, with those changes this shouldn’t happen anymore and even if the team kills the enemy they are not hurting the Genji.


Deflect
  • When Deflect is being canceled there is a more obvious sound

Creator Comment:
This will alarm the enemy that a Genji stopped Deflecting and that they can shot him again.

  • Added a 0.25s delay between canceling Deflect and being able to shoot again

Creator Comment:
Deflect cancel can feel extremely unfair to play against, this change gives some time to react to (the average reaction time for humans is 0.25s for visual and 0.17s for audio), but this will especially help when reading when the Genji is going to cancel Deflect, this change also doesn’t make canceling deflect to shot feel clunky (tested with a macro).

  • Added an option to cancel deflect with the fire button (primary and secondary fire).
    Can be found in Options --> Controls --> Genji --> Hero (off by default)

Creator Comment:
Deflect can be uncomfortable to cancel in the heat of the moment, this will make it more comfortable (keep in mind that you will only cancel Deflect with the fire buttons and not shot right afterward if you want to shoot right after canceling deflect you’d need to double click the fire button).


Dragonblade
  • If the animation of a slash started before the end of the duration of Dragonblade it will finish even if the duration of Dragonblade has already ended

Creator Comment:
When Genji slashes and the duration of Dragonblades ends the slash gets canceled and deals zero damage even if it would have hit an enemy, this feels very inconsistent and annoying for the Genji player, we already have this mechanic with Deflect at the end of Dragonblade, why not have it with the slashes as well.

  • Ultimate cost increased from 1680 to 2100 (25% increase)

Creator Comment:
Genji gets his ultimate extremely fast with the damage buff, in compensation I would increase the Ultimate cost by 15%, “So why did you add 25%?”, well that’s simple, Dragonblade is extremely strong in the right hands and was the reason he was played before the buffs (BladeBot), now that his base kit is stronger he needs something in compensation to make blade worst, IMO dry Blade is fine but by making it less common we leave dry blade the same and it would make blade have less impact overall, this also makes his Ultimate cost in line with Nanoboost, Barrage, Death Blossom and Graviton Surge.

  • Dragonblade now makes Damage Boost -75% less effective

Creator Comment:
We can agree that one of the things that makes Blade so strong is Nano (Nanoblade) and Damage boost in general, by making Dragonblade reduce the damage boost effect by 75% we make nano only add 12.5% damage boost instead of 50% and it makes it so Slash Dash with Nano only deals 191.5 damage, but you can still get the 200 damage combo by getting do sources of damage boost (like Nano and Mercy damage boost which puts you at 204 damage), it is still possible but it now takes a lot more team coordination and more resources.


All of those changes are subject to change, so if something doesn't sound right and you have a good reason tell me about it, and I might change it, but at the very least I'll try to explain why I've done it in the first place, and if you have a suggestion of something that you would like to add please tell me, I'm just one guy and my creativity isn't as big as the whole forums.

And one more thing, if you can please don’t come here with “Genji OP” or “Genji trash rn”, all I’m trying to do is to fix his problems, not talk about his state at the moment, so please have a civil discussion and only add things if they are helping.

Thank you.

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A well thought-out and well-written post. Props to you for it.

I disagree with most of these changes, because honestly, Genji didn’t really have too many problems. His base kit is already the best in the game. His rates were very healthy except in OWL, and OWL is pretty strict mirror match calcified meta, so “wasn’t used in OWL” is a descriptor which we can apply to most heroes in the game.

I like the Swift Strike reset change, although I think in practical terms it will not slow Genji down because he tends to clean up fights with a lot of RMB + LShift now. It would prevent Genji from getting too much value out of teammates’ efforts rather than his own, so that’s good.

Overall, though I disagree that Genji needs any buffs at all, I think your work here is very well-considered.

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I’m going to have to disagree with you a little bit here.

Genji’s base kit in paper was okay, but due to the upcoming power creep, he did need buffs in his base kit. However, the core issue that is Nanoblade has always kept him out from receiving buffs. Until recently. What Blizzard failed to recognize was that having a powerful base kit as well as a powerful ultimate combo would make a hero virtually unstoppable.

Now, onto the nerfs. I didn’t like the nerfs because

  • It nerfed his damage potential in a power-crept game
  • It nerfed his fluidity to keep up with other heroes
  • It did nothing about Nanoblade or Dragonblade not being consistent without Nanoboost
  • All of the “dumb” buffs (2 sec deflect duration and spread decrease) that no one asked for was still on Genji

Genji will still be strong because of those changes that should’ve never happened (deflect duration + spread) so when people still want him to be nerfed and nerf those two abilities, he’s back on square one. A generally bad DPS who has to rely on two ultimates in order to compete with the game.

That’s what the theme of this post is about. Not about buffing Genji, but for readjusting his abilities to be more consistent with the other dpses so if one part that feels unfair to enemies gets nerfed, the hero itself doesn’t plummet down to darkness.

(Edit: The nerfs I’m mentioning in this post are the nerfs blizzard gave him)

(Edit2: As I reread my stuff it might be confusing on what I’m talking about. I’m disagreeing with your statement that “Genji needs a buff” because he does, but he needs nerfs to the other parts of his kit. I don’t think his base kit is okay because it’s lopsided, similar to doom, where one thing is OP enough to make the hero viable but if that OP part gets nerf the hero falls to F tier.)

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Now for my actual post about this thread: I think you nailed most parts of it. I still feel like 2 second duration should be reverted, although the delay pretty patches that out. His dash is more harder to play, which is good. Secondary fire got fixed. Dragonblade I see your intentions, and it does fix most things about it. Props.

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As someone who have played a lot of Genji I start to see the little things that are problematic with him, most of the post is made up by small buffs and nerfs for things that don’t feel fair, balanced, or good to use, not to say that genji is really bad or really good at the moment, but those changes should make him feel better.

It’s more of a consistency thing than a nerf.

At first I wanted to revert it but I felt like it is usually being cancelled manually anyways and with the QoL of canceling deflect with the fire buttons and the delay are there so it makes it more comfortable to cancel and have a downside which should make 2 second deflect feel ok.

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If dash reset is so much of an issue, give him 2 dashes to recharge like Tracer so he has a get in get out mobility. Then take away reset

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i agree on this whole thing i like these changes and i also agree with nanoblade considering 90% of my time is on genji i feel like it will be fun to see this plz blizz see this

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This change is so useless it serves to nothing but make it so teammates end up ruining your dash reset by accident.

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Dash reset is not a problem it being inconsistent is, as a genji you get a dash out of nowhere and as an enemy you just got dashed a second time for no reason.

It doesn’t make your team ruin your dash reset, and if it does it is probably very rare, it would mean you dealt less than 50 damage without hitting the target with your dash and without killing it, I do consider adding another condition: if the Genji has dealt any damage to the target 1 second or less before the target has died he will get the reset, again I don’t what to have the ability for your team to screw you up, I just want to make it more consistent and fair.

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Long time Genji main here.

Like that someone’s finally starting this conversation, I’d like to go through each of the proposed changes individually and then give some additional thoughts.

Cyber Agility:
I agree that no balance changes are needed, bug fixes on the other hand…

Overall I’d like if wall climb was more forgiving, as a trade off tripple jump should be removed (it’s unreliable anyways but allows wierd interactions if Genji is engaging).

Primary Fire:
I think the damage buff is a good idea for primary fire, but could make his easy lethal range too high in combination with a projectile speed and fire rate buff. I think the speed buff is unnessecary. I would be open to even faster projectiles or higher damage if some form of falloff was added, but with no falloff Genji’s poke would be unfair to play against (for tanks especially) and I wouldn’t recomend any buffs.

Secondary Fire:
I’ve been playing around with post nerf Genji, and I think that the fire rate nerf was neccesary for the spread buff to stay. I think it’s prety fair overall, I’d like to see the damage go to 29, but at the end of the day I’m ok with his close range potential.

Swift Strike:
I think the idea is good, I would word (and presumably code) it a bit differently

  • "Dash reset only occurs when Genji has dealt 50 or more damage to the target in the last 5 seconds, or deals the final blow. (To deal with damage calculations when lagging) If a single instance of damage is registered and deals enough damage to kill the target but another player is awarded the final blow, all damage (including overkill) from that instance is added to the total counted amount of damage inflicted.

Deflect:
I like the idea of a better cancellation sound. I’d start with a 0.2 second delay and see how it plays.

Dragonblade:
I personally disagree with the proposed changes, here is my suggestion.

  • Nerf nano damage resist and boost to 30% but give a 30% speed increase to compensate (nano a a whole is still strong but has less breakpoints with Genji eg. 250hp heros can survive slash+dash, Widow can insakill a nano Genji)

OR

  • Reduce duration to 3 seconds but increase attack speed to 0.45 (initial swing remains unchanged). This would give Genji the same number of swings in half the time, doubling his dps while making his window smaller and CC much more punishing.
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You are proposing far too many buffs in exchange for a 25% Ult increase and slightly weaker NanoBlade, especially considering he’s the top DPS in game.

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Not anymore dude! If you were a GM genji main, you would understand that genji is no longer #1 at DPS but Ashe is. Especially during these times where teams usually have a Brig, Baptiste, and Sig which hard counter Genji. I’m also completely surprised that Ashe hasn’t gotten a nerf as well. Finally, I wouldn’t even accept the buffs the guy suggested above as it would further nerf the character than help it. But good attempt at trying to “fix” the character.

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We’ll see, but he’s still the top picked DPS in GM and has a 3% higher PR then anyone not named Ashe.

This was part of the problem, teams have been running Brig, Bap and Sig during the entirety of Genji’s meta and he still was crushing.

Hard disagree, but whatever you say.

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Yeah, but that was when genji could have his ultimate every team fight. I’m not talking about his pre-state when he received his OP buffs. I’m talking about where he stands as a DPS hero right now. Regardless, Baptiste’s immortality field does hard counter genji’s ultimate, making it unable to receive value from it. Not to mention, but the brig that can stun/knock you away from enemies. Third, where have you been getting your information from. As when I check the trends for Ashe and Genji, Genji has a 3.05% win percentage while Ashe has a 5.06% win percentage. A clear 2.01% percentage increase. So no, genji is not the “top pickedd DPS in GM.” I almost forgot to mention but he has a 42% win percentage while Ashe has a 54% win percentage. :thinking:

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…yeah, me too.

I’m using ‘This week’ in GM, he’s still got a higher pickrate AND winrate then Ashe.

No it absolutely doesn’t.

It slows Blade down, sure but “hard counter” and “unable to receive value from it” is some serious biased exaggerated Genji-main statements.

It make you swing an extra time if Nano’d or twice if naked…or just dash someone who isn’t in the tiny radius of lamp…or force out the Lamp before you Blade.

Again, Overbuff GM This week:
-Genji: PR- 5.2% WR- 53.34%
-Ashe: PR- 5.17% WR- 53.06%

I’d suggest laying off the peace pipe if you expect anyone to believe Genji has a 42% winrate in GM, that’s some utter nonsense.

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Nerfs

Buffs

QoL

6 nerfs, 4 buffs, and 2 QoL changes.
If I’m being honest I’ve might have overnerfed him, but since I can’t try it in-game, I am not completely sure.

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Hahaha, funny dude!

So adding a sound effect to the end of deflect is a nerf, but giving him an extra swing during Blade is QoL?

The sound change and SS reset are irrelevant and change nothing.

The only nerfs you have are the spread reduction, Ult increase and change to Ult damage boost.

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Lol, this is funny. Because the information you’re giving to me is not even based on the trends of the hero. And even now if you were to check the overview, you would see that Ashe has a higher PR. Third, if you were actually smart and checked the WR for genji’s GM trends, you would see it had a 42% winrate last night. Fourth, the fact that you lose two seconds of your naked blade allows the enemy team to hard focus the genji. Fifth, there are other heroes that counter genji’s blade aside from baptiste and brig such as Zen’s ult. So no, genji isn’t the top picked hero in GM. And no, he isn’t OP and still needs buffs.

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Hey look, you’re actually right about something! Ashe is now 0.1% higher in PR then Genji, congrats! He’s still got a .5% higher win rate though, which is more important then that .1% PR different.

Nonsense, Genji hasn’t ever had a 42% WR in GM when given a couple days of data.

If YOU were smart you’d use a modicum of common sense and realize how unrealistic it is that he would just suddenly drop +10% overnight.

Again, losing 1/3rd the duration of a naked Blade isn’t “Hard countered,” nor is it ”making it unable to receive value from it” it’s still got 4 seconds remaining… and let’s be honest here, Ana still has the 2nd highest support PR in GM, the Blades are rarely naked, and there isn’t always a Bap.

Keep ignoring logic and exaggerating to fit your narrative though.

Trans does absolutely nothing against a boosted Blade, which you already know, and even if it did… Ana’s PR is nearly 7% higher then Zen, you’ll have an anti ready to shut it down.

I envy the reality you have created for yourself. They say ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person on the planet.

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That makes him easier to play