Yes? That’s the point? To stop the bloat?
There is no bloat, the damage dealing role has far more practical diversity than mitigation and healing. It isn´t as limited of a role.
Not to mention, that it is irrelevant, your comment was about pulling people into the role and rewarding them with new heroes. That would subsequently hurt even more people than it benefits, as the DPS far outnumber the other roles.
Queue times aside ofc, as that adds another dynamic.
Untrue, I’m a tank/support main that hates 2-2-2.
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Add in even further dividing the player base by role, and greater toxicity due to that.
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It’s funny, 2-2-2 isn’t even the issue. Sinatraa played with 2-2-2 for the entirety of stage 4, playoffs, and OWWC last year with zero issues. Not one word about disliking it. The reason he said he lost love of the game was the que times, not 2-2-2. The issue isn’t with 2-2-2 itself, its the que times. Which is funny because he’s so good at Valorant that he’s waiting up to 1 hour to find games now, nice lateral move there by Sinatraa (although the pro scene is looking much more promising than OW’s, to be fair).
2-2-2 isn’t the issue.
It’s a great idea but it still needs to be worked on, particulalry there’s too many DPS heroes, 53% of the heroes yet only 33% of the slots are for DPS heroes.
You could move some DPS heroes to other slots to help with this
Also the devs need to focus far more on making support heroes who have a lingering heal effect but spend most of their time fighting. Also re-tune existing supports so that they can generally get out enough heals and attack at the same time.
I’m not sure I was trying to make “point” Spoonman, really.
I’d no desire to try and convince anyone of anything.
I was merely expressing my “personal” feelings about RQ.
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That’s hardly unexpected when Role Queue specifically forced 2-2-2. They’ve only ever existed at the same time.
You have your choice of forced 2-2-2, via Role Queue, or not being forced into 2-2-2, via Classic. If/when the two become actually different, I’ll be happier—for one—and will agree with you, but for the time being they are one and the same.
I think fixing the issues Open Queue has is easier than the issues created from Role Queue…
So why are we still with RQ?
Well, where to begin…?
- Insane DPS Q times at all ranks
- Insane Tank and Support Q times, at high ranks
- Looser matchmaking, due to lack of Tank players (nothing quite like getting Plat Tanks, in a Master game)
- Broken Backfill, due to a lack of Tank players. Tank leaves in QP, the match is 5v6 for huge chunks, Which makes the experience absolute garbage.
- Uptick in DPS-ing Tanks and Supports, because they are trying to dodge unreasonable Q times.
- Uptick in Smurfing and throwing to low ranks for the same reason.
- Feeling helpless against the enemy team, when you’re locked into a role (can’t swap two different role for counter picking and such, when the other role refuses to change)
- 3 SRs. So, if you actually care about more than one role, It makes climbing a nightmare.
- Lack of a priority system combined with long Q times. So, there are times when people wait 20 mins for a match, get a leaver, match gets cancelled, they Q again for 20 mins, leaver, match gets cancelled, they Q again, and finally get into a match. Thus, doubling or tripling their Q time, overall (thankfully, though, Jeff did say they’re working on a fix for this). But, that still doesn’t mean it was/still isn’t an issue, until that happens.
- Lack of things to do, in game, while waiting in long Qs. (This did get better when “While You Wait” came in, but it was still a big problem before that. And, even now, That stuff gets repetitive after a while).
- Non-DPS only players being subjectef to the same long Qs as DPS only players. It doesn’t matter that you spent 10 matches playing the “understaffed” roles. Because, The second you want to play DPS, You’re still trapped in the same long queue time.
- This goes with #11: the game doesn’t reward you enough for picking the “understaffed” roles. A loot box or 25 credits is a pittance of a “reward”/“incentive”, for anyone who’s been playing this game for more than a year or so. Because, at that point, you already have all or most of the things you wanted. So, an extra box, or just some credits, here and there, is near worthless to you.
And that’s just what I can think of, off the top of my head.
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Yeah, you pretty much said everything that I’ve had an issue with, for awhile.
Now, add in some of the contradictions and counterproductive things that Overwatch does with its core design, like how things such as: PBSR and how Ult Charge is handled, discourages that core design. And, then you pretty much got what I’ve been banging on about for the last year and a half that I’ve been on these forums.
So, basically, we have to watch the game crash and burn, before we can get the game we enjoy? Fun…
I mean, in a weird way, does make sense. It’s kind of like a “Phoenix rising from the ashes” situation.
And, I do have to admit, I would find an ironically funny if, at the launch of OW2, we end up going back/reintroducing No Limits or Open Q, as the main way to play the game, again. Lol.
Jeff talked about it in the last developer update. The one that looks like it was shot in his house, with his phone.
Oh, but you’re just supposed to “git gud”, remember? 
Yeah, great “solution” you got there…
“Hey, it’s not a problem! Just avoid playing a third of the roles/over half the Heroes, in the game!”
Brilliant!
Pretty much…
Right.
Because, honestly, even if you agree with his “solution”, it can’t be best for the overall health of the game, If the "choices"for players, like you and I, are: “go to the Arcade” or “find another game”.
I mean you would think a Dev would want as many people play their game/the “Main” part of their game, as possible. But, I doubt giving old Flex players, Tanks, and Support players that ultimatum, I listed above, helps that.
Right. And I didn’t mind soloing on those roles, either. It’s why I’m playing OQ.
But, now that’s one less Tank/Support player, in the “Main” game. And I know I’m not the only one going the “leave or go play Arcade” route. And, as I said, I doubt that is good, for the overall health of the game.
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Funny enough, they’re not allowed to be good, defensively, either. Because people whine that nothing dies/they just end up shooting shields.
That part of the community only seems to be happy when Tanks are punching bags/Ult batteries and Supports are free kills.
The problem is, you are required to have two of each one, on your team. And no one in the right mind wants to play the punching bag or the free kill.
It’s quite a conundrum that overwatch (and it’s community) has.
Very true. And the reason why they can’t, is pretty much summed up, in my previous reply, on this comment.
It wasn’t a myth, but the whole “it was 4 DPS every game, bro! Every game!” thing, that people on the forums kept saying, was highly exaggerated.
Ah, yes. Youre trying to make an argument, by citing one of the few modes left, in the entire game that allow DPS player to play the heroes they want, without waiting and ungodly amount of time to do.
I mean, color me absolutely shocked these findings! Shocked, I’d say! Shocked!
Of course there are a bunch of DPS players in Arcade/QPC?! It’s because they have nowhere else to go!
You can’t just say “Well, there’s 4 DPS in QPC, so that must mean there was 4 DPS in every pre-222 game”.
It doesn’t work that way!
There are so many in Arcade, now, because that’s the only place they can go without waiting forever in a year. So, They flock to it, and you see a lot of them. But, that wasn’t the case, in the old days. They were more evenly spread out, in Arcade, QP, and Comp. Which is why, in reality, it wasn’t 4 DPS, every game, back then. People just have what’s know as Negativity Bias.
Basically, you see more DPS heavy teams in Arcade, now, because the DPS population is now a lot denser, there. But that isn’t proof that pre-222 was the same way.
It’s still authoritarian. The 222 supporters got to dictate the game for the rest of us. The only difference is, they just don’t have to micromanage each match, because 222 is now the new “Standard”. It doesn’t make it a good thing, though.
in essence, the 222 supporters didn’t like how the game was being played. So, instead of making their experience better, with their own two hands (group with friends, use LFG, whatever). They decided “this isn’t good enough for me. I want to strong arm, everyone to play the way I feel is best!”
All this current system is, is a thinly vailed ego trip. The 222 supporters wanted this and damn anyone else who disagrees with them. And, anyone who got screwed over, in the process, was a price they were willing to pay, because they weren’t the ones that actually had to pay it. It was players, like myself and Jessicka and Megadodo, and Hyphen and PezLex, and Socrates, and so many other people that either left the game, went to Arcade only, and/or just stopped playing Tank/Support all together, because of Role Q/Role Lock/Forced 222.
And before anyone says anything like “Well, you still got Open Q/QPC”, don’t even start with me. First of all, the game is still balenced around 222, even in those modes. Second, we don’t even know how long OQ will be around. And, third, it took them an ungodly amount of time for them to get QPC to be even remotely like the old game. I mean, come on, we just got Achievement support a couple weeks ago.
So, don’t give me that. Because, in reality, when Role Q came into the game, the 222 supporters won the lottery. They got to have their cake and eat it too. The best that the rest of us got, was some crumbs that fell on the floor…
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Dude… it was this way in QP an Comp for years. People commented on it long before 2-2-2… get real.
Well, that’s the thing. Like, Baja, has said, many times, they never even tried to improve LFG. Or even pre-222, in general. Outside of balence changes, they never tried to improve pre-222. No experimental card, no hero ban ideas, nothing.
I don’t agree with all that, but where was this, back then? Instead, they just threw the baby out with the bathwater and now we’re in this 222 crap show. And It’s just not working. Not in its current form, anyway.
Yes and no.
That would be like saying the old QP mentality was the same as the old Comp mentality. It wasn’t. And it still isn’t in QPC vs OQ.
Exactly. I also pointed out to this person that of course they’re going to see more DPS players in QPC, It is one of the few modes left, that allows those players to play the heroes they enjoy, without waiting and ungodly amount of time to do so.
Whereas, in the old system, DPS players were more spread out between Arcade, QP, and Comp, as they all allowed them to Play the heroes they wanted, within a reasonable amount of time.
Now, however, DPS are more densely populated in arcade, due to the reasons I mentioned above, so it wouldn’t be uncommon to see more of them. But, that doesn’t mean that it was “4 DPS, every game” in the old system. You’re trying to compare two different things. Two different eras of OverWatch.
I wouldn’t say that, but I can almost guarantee it wouldn’t retain them. At least, not at the scale we would need to make 222/“33% of players across all roles” system work, at its most optimal.
because, the reality is, we could have a hundred tanks to choose from, but it still will be the least popular role. All Trinity systems suffer from unequal amounts of players per role. It’s just that by damning that, in OW (with 222), that’s like adding gasoline to the fire.
Yeah, you’ve pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole thing. Also, the introduction of 222 did create its own issues and/or exacerbate some of the issues we already had.
But, even with that aside, the point you said about the salad still stands for me. Even if it ran perfect, I would still be bored, eventually.
Expressing your own personal feelings, using your own personal experiences? Oh, my God! How dare you!
Lol.
I never said it wasn’t. I even said that above the part you quoted of my reply (convenient how you off that out).
But, anyway, what I said was the 4 DPS thing wasn’t as bad as people made it out to be. It was a negativity bias.
Also, using QPC to try and prove it was 4 DPS, all in the time, in pre-Role Q, just doesn’t work. I even told you why you’re seeing a lot of DPS players in QPC.
I’m not saying you aren’t seeing the things you are. Of course you are. But, your experiences do not exist in a vacuum. there are reasons why you are experiencing that. And I told you why. Also, Well your experiences aren’t invalid, they don’t speak for the experiences of other people. So, trying to say “Well, I saw this, so it’s a problem” doesn’t really mean much in the grand scheme of these.
What I’m trying to say here is: there is no absolutes
Like I said in my original comment to you, I’m not going to say that 4 DPS was a myth. It wasn’t. Just say that would be untruthful. But it is also untruthful to say that it was every game. Which, before Role Q came in, almost every 222 supporter was spouting that nonsense.
The reality of all this, however, lies somewhere in the middle.
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Key word is WERE.
I mean yea, game made me swap off tanking after role q was added. I dont mind myself waiting to play dps. And probably many others swap off or give up plaing from tank after changes they are doing.
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So you have faster queue times, more balanced matches, 2/2/2 (which it was in 80% of games before role lock), and suddenly now decide to play DPS? Makes sense.
More balanced? You kidding right? Now lower ranks are put agains higher dps more offten because of lack of tanks in the role
Also many changes agains life of the tank because “oh no, now when tanks are forced i have two shield tanks to deal with, kill them” and the barrier nerfs happend.
Add to that dmg going up, and healing nerfs, and echo
Yes, now im swapping off tank. You might guess why.
Also, before, i was maining tank, but swapping roles around was more fun, and gived you option to not get stomped when you swapped with others roles. But now, you are stuck with what got before match, if you get hard countered? Welp, beat it, you are now free ult charge for your counters.
Fun times.
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Not in your ELO they aren’t.
Fun fact: role lock didn’t remove the ability to change heroes in the spawn room. If you are suggesting there is a composition that counters 2/2/2, YOU MIGHT WANT TO SWAP TO THAT COMP TOO.
You kidding? Masters in plat games are a thing now more common than before.
Yea, i can change one tank to another, but the other team still have hero that is a tank killer in general. Especialy when they are in other rank than you and are way better at the game?
I think you dont understand
Swapping roles around means, when you do bad at rein because of counters, but you are not a good dva player, you swap with someone else who lets say play mercy at the time, and go lucio and they go dva.
This kind of things, those made a good games.