It isn’t just a problem of one hero. OW heroes generally have very high damage for a game pretends to have strategic combat. And it isn’t only limited to DPS.(Why Goats ever be possible? Cause they don’t feel lack of damage without DPS heroes.)
Instakillers aren’t just made artificially. It is a natural product from the chain, if A has damage of X, then B should have Y, then C should … .
If something in the chain is heavily changed, the whole chain should be changed. Also, if the damage chain is changed, the healing and the damage block(shields, etc.) abilities chain also should be changed.
It would be a whole remake of the game. I personally think it would be better. FPS-like TTK doesn’t fit well in this game IMO. Also, it isn’t easy such changes could be made after released, but it can be tested and applied in OW2.
But within the context of overwatch, I feel that capability needs to be held at the caveat of wind ups, telegraphs, and an appreciable cooldown.
Is like to see widow be reworked with this in mind- giver her these restrictions, but also find ways to bolster and buff her general consistency along with it.
So when I said “every accusation a confession” that wasn’t obvious to you that I consider it an accusation that I made up any rules. And accusation I obviously reject.
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I have answered this question about FOUR TIMES now!
I addressed every single part of it.
I doesn’t prove a single solitary thing that Overwatch has healing as that doesn’t sufficiently distinguish Overwatch from other games.
I explained it doesn’t distinguish Overwatch as so many other games have 1-hit-kills and healing yet are very well balanced.
I am discussing other games.
You are free to ignore dozens of other games that manage with 1-shotting snipers but ignoring it won’t make it go away.
Not interested enough to actually say anything about it, you’ve entirely ignored all I’ve said about possible means of balancing it other than categorical removal of 1 shots.
Your comment dodges the last question I asked.
You’ve had over an hour to edit in further responses or make additional replies.
Since you seem unable to answer multiple questions without dodging or misquoting, lets stick to a single one:
IN THE CONTEXT OF OVERWATCH ONLY why is this not true?
1 shots are INCREDIBLY powerful in a game built around tanks and healers as they completely counter healing - cant heal something that’s already instantly dead.
Overwatch IS a game with healing and it IS the case in Overwatch that you can’t heal someone that’s been 1-shot by a sniper!
MOST multiplayer shooter have healing and it IS the case in such games that you can’t heal someone that’s been 1-shot by a sniper!
It proves nothing to emphasise that Overwatch has healing that is made irrelevant by 1-hit-kills, most multiplayer shooters have such a thing.
Awful idea.
Nothing of the sort should ever be implemented even as a joke.
And reducing her crit mutliplier to less than every other hero is transparently punitive against Widow players, you clearly have zero interest in playing this hero and no interest in the wishes of those who play this hero.
You haven’t enabled anyone to counter Widow, you’ve just make it completely unnecessary, you can just ignore her and use healing to tank her damage.
Ok, cool, i dont care about other games and they were specifically eliminated from the question. We’re past that first point - i’m glad you agree.
Do you disagree with this:
Range and application method does not reduce the amount of damage a 1 shot does. The numbers exist therefore the damage is comparable across characters.
Only a fool would agree nor disagree with that as this is an obvious trap, it’s purposefully vague so that you can change it’s meaning depending on whether I agree or disagree with it. It’s a trick to make me seem unreasonable.
Stop jerking me around and just make your whole complete argument, as weak as it is considering you have absolutely no way to address at all the countless other games that have one-shotting snipers without issue. It is a brazen contradiction you can only pretend doesn’t exist.
You cannot win this with trickery, getting people to agree or disagree with vague things then act like they agreed or disagreed with something more specific.
I recommend answering the questions i ask instead of the ones you want to answer.
The purpose of me asking that question is to get you talking about how the devs balance the game and how they have to compare heroes to each other to achieve that. Do you believe that they do this?
You can answer a question if it specifically states “only about Overwatch” by only talking about Overwatch, and not another question you want to answer about other games instead. No other game is Overwatch.
I know exactly how game devs balance a game, i’ve been a professional game designer/dev for 20 years. I’m trying to get you to understand the problems here. It would be nice if you’d stop dodging questions and actually talk about things.
I’m sorry, I COULD give you an answer and already partially have… but before that happens i want a clear and meaningful discussion as to why.
It would already help a lot if they reduced her max damage to 200.
She could still one-shot most of the DPS and Support roster, but now you can soft-counter her with 225 and 250 hp heroes.
It would also make her less effective against Tanks.
It’s completely ridiculous that she can 2 shot most of them taking their critbox size into account.
She could get her health and maybe some other part of her kit buffed in return.
That is not a question you are asking that I refuse to answer.
That is a question I am asking that you refuse to even consider.
I have asked why 1-shotting snipers are ONLY a problem in Overwatch yet not a problem in all other games. Explain that contradiction! You can’t even say why that is impossible to answer, as if you did then I’d adjust my question to make it possible to answer and you don’t want to answer it.
I’ve asked you to make your question less vague and you refuse.
But not Overwatch.
YOU said that other games don’t matter, so you want it both ways when you said:
Other games don’t matter when they support my argument but when it’s about supporting your argument suddenly other games matter.
I have dodged absolutely no questions.
When you openly say you’ll ignore other games, THAT is dodging questions.
I have directly addressed your question and said exactly why I cannot answer it, instead of improving your question you revel in the ambiguity. A textbook bad faith argument, you are trying to tie up the conversation as you know the conversation cannot go the way you want.
Why… why WHAT!?!?
Why ‘we are discussing this’? Why [insert (pro)noun] are [insert verb]?!?
That is an obviously incomplete sentence.
How can you want clarity and meaning when you won’t be clear what you mean?!
1 shots are a problem in many games - World of Warcraft is a particularly good example. I’ve not played much Paladins, but i hear 1 shots in that are rare. Those games aren’t Overwatch either.
I gave you an extensive list of problems for Overwatch with Widow that you didn’t have solutions for.
Do you have a reason to want to talk about other games instead of Overwatch? It feels to me like you’re trying to distract from what i’m trying to discuss with you.
World of Warcraft isn’t a multiplayer shooter, so you need to explain why that’s such a relevant comparison.
World Of Warcraft doesn’t depend on cover from the environment to the same extent, barriers in the same way nor does it have certain movement where it makes it harder to hit the head.
You gave a list of CHALLENGES in a game that is designed to be challenging, challenges that uncountable number of other multiplayer shooters manage perfectly well.
And now suddenly other games don’t matter.
To refute the idea that a 1 shotting sniper is could never work by citing all the games where a 1 shotting sniper DOES work.
You then need to say how Overwatch is so different from all those shooters with 1-shotting snipers.
You gave a SPECIFIC example of WoW and I gave SPECIFIC reasons why Overwatch is substantially different from WoW. Differences that are relevant to 1-shotting snipers.
No it doesn’t.
No one can say that 1-shotting snipers can never work and ignore the proof that it can work.
You’re asking me to make an argument you know it weak.
To list any single specific game would only be a distraction, what would be the point in listing an obvious example like Team Fortress 2 for a pointless effort trying to compare and contrast TF2 to OW when that is not my argument.
My argument is not ONE other relevant game has 1 shotting snipers.
My argument is that almost all other similar games have 1 shotting snipers.
So single out one or a few would be an exercise in futility.
How about instead of me making an argument you know is weak I make an argument I know is strong: WHY 1 shotting snipers are less of a problem in games other than Overwatch.
The difference is due to core design decisions like Overwatch no having “flinch” when taking damage. Most other games balance snipers by flinch, you don’t have to kill the sniper just mess up their shot. But with no flinch the only way to counter Widowmaker is to outright kill her before she kills you.
If Ashe lands a headshot on Widowmaker that’s only 150 damage, Widow has 25HP remaining.
All that is needed is an intermediate state short of outright killing Widow. It could be a flinch on taking damage or it could be that her charge resets on taking damage or you are knocked out of being scoped in if you take damage.
I can draw the distinction that you cannot.
I can identify why snipers are different in Overwatch compared to other games.
That difference is the intermediate countering, with something like flinch or functionally equivalent of flinch which stops you being 1-shotted but short of outright killing the enemy sniper.
Why is asking you to explain yourself not relevant?
I already explained why flinch and your other solutions are irrelevant - it doesn’t solve any of the problems I listed, it just makes them happen less often.
It seems you dont want to enter into a reasonable discussion and you’re more interested in internet sparring, which is a shame.
You keep doing this same old trick and it’s getting tired?
You keep saying some variation of “Why is [insert some blatant falsehood] true?”
it’s bonkers.
Why is happening less not a solution?
Why should it NEVER happen?
FYI, if you can hit Widow’s body before she can click on your head (a reasonable challenge) then it won’t happen, you’ll only get 1-shot because you lacked the skills. The outcome of the fight is in your hands.
This is another tedious thing you do.
You dress up a baseless smear as “it seems you”.
It doesn’t seem like that at all, you’re just smearing me. That is “internet sparring”.