Right, but making the argument that “it is a FPS therefore hitscan is STILL a bad one”
Yes, and hitscan is what is used in OWL almost completely, always has been.
That is why people are getting grumpy. Like, historically the game has been balanced around OWL, and hitscan have historically been stronger there.
It is an argument that “ok, so the Dev’s are going to balance hitscan and projectile differently, and we don’t like that, so if they move them TO projectile, maybe they will balance it better”
Also not a great argument, but I can see why they are frustrated enough to make it.
I’m taking the more direct argument, which is Niche heroes SHOULD be balanced properly, which means they would be picked when their niche comes up.
They are not, so, make the niches heroes stronger, so they are. (now, the niche heroes are usually projectile, so…)
No but in any other game, everyone starts of with the same arsenal of weapons. You cited Counter-Strike, Warzone, (I don’t know about Apex but it’s a battle royale so I assume you find weapons on the way), Rainbow Six.
Everyone starts with essentially the same hitscans weapons.
Overwatch is a game who tries to make ray, projectile, melee and hitscan coexist. Kind of like old battle arena games.
Thus the obvious comparison concerning balance.
I can break down your whole response but we are basically going around in circles.
No they werent. The UT sniper rifle was a fast firing, quick scope, could 1 shot with a head shot, 2 shot with 2 body shots, can be used in close range. Most loved using the sniper.
In UT 2004 they introduced more hitscan weapons like the lightning gun, assault rifle, Minigun is hitscan (dont know why someone said it was projectile lol), Shock rifle primary is hitscan, Plasma rifle secondary is hitscan.
It was a healthy mix of both.
Apex and Battlefield are hitscan-like. Only far away gun fire do you tell the guns are super fast projectiles and not hitscan.
Especially Battlefield where guns like the assault rifles, shotguns, SMG’s, and handguns are rapid fire basically hitscan. They have a faster TTK and fire rate than 76 rifle which is 100% hitscan and not 99% hitscan-ish like battlefield guns.
The point is that most FPS games have hitscans or projectiles that act almost like hitscans.
So these wacky off the wall unorthodox ways of attacking from niche heroes is not the norm in FPS games.
Is this bad? No. But they are and should always be a temporary use. Not to be used all the time and not to 1 trick.
Like I said their designs are the issue not their damage. ANd if they made Junkrat like that , why not play ground Pharah.
I agree. They were flawed designs from the start. And now they are more apperant because they game has sped up and slow, controlling 1 general area defensive heroes are not valid anymore.
I agree, but they ALSO should be the go to picks in OWL the moment that Niche comes up.
They are not, ergo they are not strong enough.
I’m not saying they are not meant to be one tricked, because they are not, but they should be balanced so they are real strong when their time comes, and they are just not.
You may not like them, but you don’t have to play as them, but you should expect to lose to the people who are playing as them, in the niches where they are meant to be good.
Secondary fire is hitscan and reduced firerate.
Primary fire is actually projectile with high firerate.
Not sure about spread, I think primary had more spread but that can be an error on my part.
Or maybe it’s the spread that made me think it was fast projectile. Don’t know.
If it’s actually hitscan, the firerate is counterbalanced by the spread anyway. Which is the whole point of this conversation.
On one hand you have inconsistency but barrage, on the other, you trade firerate for accuracy.
Exactly.
They all have great damage potential.
And the flaws from some of their kits just makes people say, if you play [insert hero name here], Just play [insert better hero with similar ability here].
The same thing happened in 5v5, where if you played Sym, people were saying you might as well just play Mei, since she has better survivability at close range & better damage at long range, due to that headshot damage.
Some of these old heroes that were designed for slower & passive playstyles need to be revamped, to at least as much as Orisa got changed for 5v5.
And OW2 is the best excuse to completely change the kits to heroes that can’t be fully utilized, due to that slower design of a playstyle in the kits.
And that includes Widow’s mine ability, too.
It feels useless most of the time. Passive abilities that only trigger from close range detection like the Widow mine, Junkrat Trap, & Sym turrets need to be replaced.
Out of the 3 of these abilities, the Sym turrets have the highest range, making them be more utilized than the trap or mine, but the fact that they can be easily seen, avoided, & destroyed equalizes how much usage it gets.
Its hitscan from what i remember and i played a lot of UT all versions.
And also from the database , it says it was hitscan. All versions. No mention of projectile.
And when a gun is both hitscan and projectile it says it is like in the Shock rifle.
Im 100% for reworking niche heroes to fit into the modern way OW2 will be played compared to the slower pace of OW1 where some of the niche heroes could work.
The only thing i hope for is that they dont just increase damage, which isnt their issue.
And i hope they dont increase their health, as then the games TTK will go up again. Pretty soon 200hp heroes will be rare. Hope they dont take this lazy way of making them “better”.
“n UT, the Sniper Rifle and the Minigun are Hitscan weapons. They don’t actually travel from source to target. They are instantly there. (It is online latentcy that causes you to have to lead your target)”
It’s also really annoying seeing how strong some of their abilities are?
Like mccree (in both OW1 & 2). The hitscans have some of the highest average dps couples with incredibly reliable damage output. Their abilities shouldn’t be good. They should be average. Mccree shouldn’t be able to CC someone or blow them up with a HOMING grenade when his main damage sources are so good. They’re just crutches that make it so he invalidates other dps picks.
Why put in a tonne of effort playing junk or mei when you can get the same results with way less effort on mccree?
Hitscans generally have the worst abilities in the game.
Give me deflect instead of flashbag or the homing grenade,
Give me flight like echo instead of roll. Give me sticky grenades instead of fan of the hammer.
Give me Genjis dash that resets on doing 1 point of damage on a kill instead of 76’s sprint.
Give me Hanzos wall hacks every 6 seconds instead of Widows venom mine.
Agree. But they could have done both not just 100% scrap UT.
Before his (numerous) nerfs after getting double mines he actually was a solid counter to the first attempts at running 4 tanks and 2 supports. Before Brig and before Goats was a thing. So history does appear to support your assertions of niche heroes being required/able to prevent outrageous metas forming.
Would he have been able to deal with Goats in his pre nerf double mine state? Maybe…He would have certainly been very effective on a lot of maps vs it. I find it difficult to imagine even Goats having enough sustain to deal with rip tire being up every 30 seconds since they’d feed him massive ult charge due to the nature of how Goats was played.
There are games with MUCH worse map design, especially alot of F2P shooters. OW maps actually have good flow and alternate paths.
Chokepoints aren’t a problem if you don’t just stand in them. It’s about strategy and play?
Hitscans can be made equal to other heroe’s abilities. Saying nothing can be done is saying the devs have ZERO control over the game.
For instance, Soldier was fine… fast speed and the ability to heal himself and anyone near him as he’s killing people… there was no need to take away his bullet spread. Now he’s ridiculous.
The hitscans can be kept from dominating the entire game of they don’t overdue amount of ammo, damage, falloff, spread, reload time, and extra abilities.
in a game like overwatch it’s dumb to say only aim should be rewarded, when there is more to it than that and a variety of weapons and hero styles.
People keep bringing up characters like junkrat. Yeah, an entry level junk can spam grenades and get a few lucky shots. It’s the skilled ones that can use angles, bounce, chokes, traps, and mines for maximum advantage. That also takes practice, strategy, knowing maps, knowing other heroes, ect.
Oh it’s understandable why they did it.
I still blame them.
Plus they could have hired new developpers once Fortnite was successful.
Anyway…
Compared to SOME other DPS perhaps.
But those heroes traded something else for these abilities. And some of them will even lose them without any trade for Overwatch 2.
I still think hitscans don’t really have any drawbacks and some of them can even lose their abilities and still be viable. Which is saying something.
But I think we’re going on in circles here and noone will really be able to convince the other.
Still, it was an interesting conversation.
Good continuation.
Yeah, they did, and then put them on UE5, which honestly, I’ll take over UT4. I know I’d LOVE to play UE4, but, damn if UE5 isn’t one of the greatest gaming creation engines ever made.
I’ll take a massive burst in new good games over one game. Still it would have been nice for them to make a new UT in their new engine. Maybe they still will.