It isnt though. They have less damage per impact, less DPS per mag and fall off damage, and null hitbox.Theres no way around it. Once you look the advantages vs cons, the only “value” hitscans have is consistency, provided you can aim very well.
Just pressing H at the spawn room and using a hitscan doesnt yield immediate value.
And no, there are not many ways to buff projectiles ( because again, hitscans are NOT the problem ) without making them broken.
Some people dont want to “fix” any problem here, they just hate hitscans and want them to be on the bottom of the barrel, and it shows in many posts
True but not that problematic.
First, the level design permitted anyone to ambush a sniper.
When it didn’t like on Face to Face, well…everyone could use a sniper rifle.
Second, it added another drawback starting Unreal Tournament 2003 with the Lightning gun giving away your position at each shot and lowering the fire rate. Most old-school FPS understood hitscan needed to have some kind of weakness. I guess this philosophy got lost in the way because apparently “hitscan is standard” now.
I’ll alway remember 2004 and its new game modes fondly. But if I am to be honest, 99 was my forever love. I understand why Epic abandonned Unreal Tournament 4 to concentrate on Fortnite. It make sense company-wise. But at the same time, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to stomach it.
The worst thing is, you can take any game from this era. Even Counter-Strike. Modern hitscan weapons. But even this game had a massive spread and recoil system favorising “well-thought” shots. It was better to control your aim and your fire rate than spread wildly. That’s why it appealed to another kind of FPS gamers. I think Counter-Strike is kind of the birth of hitscans dominance but even then, everyone was supposed to be on the same ground, using the same weapons. It was just another way to play, another game.
Overwatch can’t use this philosophy when it comes to balance because not everyone gets to use a rocket launcher, a sniper rifle or a ray gun.
I understand quite clearly.
As I said in the response you were quoting that bring in more projectile heroes but bring them in the style of Sojourn or better yet, projectile weapons like the one seen in games like Apex, Battlefield, which are hitscan-like but still projectile.
Those kind of projectile are 100% welcome instead of some wacky nonsense like a hero that throws exploding banana peels or whatever.
It’s been like this for months/years. And there is a specific small group of 10-20 forum regulars that post hitscan complain threads almost daily. If it’s not complaining about hitscans in general, it’s about mccree, it’s about 76, it’s about widow, it’s about Ashe, rinse and repeat.
They think they are making it look like everybody hates hitscans when it’s just this small group of posters.
First, don’t disrespect Mario Kart. Crash Team Racing might be better but it never would have come to be without Mario Kart.
Second, Overwatch is not modern Warfare. Of course there are futuristic and silly weapons, that’s the kind of playerbase it was trying to draw.
I can’t stand modern weaponry in FPS games. I don’t play Call of Duty, I don’t play Battlefield, I might have enjoyed Halo but I played the first one on PC and it was clearly an Xbox game.
I don’t like Counter-Strike, Arma, Rainbow six… essentially because there’s not that much of a difference between weapons.
Overwatch was an anomaly, a coming back from old-style FPS. Why would you want to destroy that?
I’m all for futuristic sci-fi weapons.
I come from unreal tournament, planetside, titanfall, Quake, APB reloaded, Borderlands, and countless of other FPS shooters that are not military tactical FPS games.
My point if you missed it, is to have good hero designs with a primary form of attack that is not some silly niche that is only good in certain situations.
Yet people decide to one trick these niche heroes and then complain about hitscans because they refuse to switch to a generalist.
Most of the past first person shooter games I played had a mix of hitscan and projectile in the same game.
But even the projectiles were hitscan-like.
The issue with niche heroes in Overwatch is that their designs are flawed. Has nothing to do with their damage numbers.
And also people that want to one trick these flawed heroes and then complain about the generalists.
Junkrat for example is based on a grenade launcher. A grenade launcher is not a weapon you use for the whole game in almost all first person shooters. It’s a weapon that you use in certain situations and then switch to your primary weapon. And that is exactly how you are supposed to use junkrat.
Use him in certain situations and then switch off when he isn’t working anymore. The problem is junkrat one tricks don’t ever want to switch off and want to use him even in places he is weak. And then come to the forums to complain and cry that he needs buffs and hitscans need nerfs.
Symmetra is another badly designed hero with the same kind of issue.
Her primary fire is based on an alternate fire from the plasma rifle from UT
Her secondary fire is based on the alternate fire of the shock rifle from UT.
So this niche hero is designed based on forms of attacks which are not made to be primary forms of attack.
Yet for some reason they decided to make this flawed hero which people decide to one trick, when they were not supposed to one trick these type of heroes, and only use them in certain situations.
So again my point is to get away from these flawed type of niche heroes, and design more generalists which have a more consistent way of doing damage as opposed to some silly unorthodox mechanic.
Niche heroes are okay to have in a game when used correctly. The problem is the player base that decides to one trick them and never switch.
There are people who one-trick Symmetra? And Junkrat?
I mean, maybe but their numbers must be so insignificant that they’re not exeactly a problem.
I do tend to agree that one-tricking ANY hero is a problem and was obviously not what Blizzard had in mind when they made Overwatch.
But I’m not sure I could recognise any telltale sign of Symmetras or Junkrats one-tricks.
People one trick all the niche heroes.
And if you pay attention to the hitscan complainers on these forums, it’s 90% always the people that one trick niche heroes.
The same Mercy and Moira mains , that can’t play any other DPS hero besides Sym, Junk, Bastion, Torb, etc.
The occasional Doom main as well, which is a close range hero and they don’t like ranged heroes countering them.
Complaining about hitscans in an FPS game is ridiculous.
That’s like me going into the Mario kart forums and complaining about the racing mechanics in the game.
Asking for nerfs on speed and drifting and to make the game all about fighting with items and less about racing.
Again, I want a Redeemer(projectile) with Soldier’s rate of fire (quick) area of effect (D.Va’s ultimate) without any drawback.
See? I didn’t even call for a hitscan nerf.
Not sure you would like it though.
It doesn’t matter if you deem them unskilled, their complaints actually seem reasonable when you stopped being biased.
The Redeemer is junkrats ultimate. That’s where the developers got his ultimate idea from.
And you are just trying to take an extreme to prove your point when I’m not taking any extremes to prove my point.
Basically we have to turn the game upside down just to cater to people that hate hitscans, hate FPS mechanics, just so they can have a good time one tricking niche heroes they are not supposed to one trick in the first place.
A ridiculous notion that makes little sense.
Especially when hitscan players are probably the largest group of players that play Overwatch. As is apparent by how popular those heroes are.
What you fail to realize is that maybe the developers want people to play Overwatch by people shooting at each other.
And not by forming two balls of players grouped up and both walking towards each other in melee range.
Even with the only new hero revealed yet, it tells you what kind of heroes they are focusing on.
I wouldn’t be surprised if all the new heroes, supports and tanks fall in line with this as well.
Which will be more shooter and generalist type as opposed to some wacky abomination.
These hitscan generalists are the most popular heroes in the game. Which shows that people want to play this game in a certain way.
Why would they ruin that in cater to the minority of niche players.
It all makes a lot more sense when you accept that they don’t actually want the game to be balanced but instead just want their favourite heroes to be stronger in every situation. All while arguing they’re more difficult.
wonder if they made all the hit-scan like sojourn’s primary. it is the future so why do we need bullets? everyone has a laser, railgun or tech weapon. well in star wars the stormtroopers do miss a lot
I get the sarcasm but Idk if golf is actually the best way to compare it. Golf requires wind and distance measuring, perfect hits and praying your ball doesn’t go in the water. Honestly golf is like trying to play Hanzo from the back of the map. Try hitting consistent shots with a hanzo at far ranges, at least 1 out of 10 shots might hit lol. Its different with hitscans, they could easily land 8-9 out of 10 shots without trouble.
Have you read OP mate? Because it seems 100% that is the case.
What data? No stats have been shown here, no ranks represented, nothing. Just a rant about how Hitscans are “easy point and click” , and they are “poking from the back” , like projectiles dont do that AND spam all the time lol.
Like I said : There is a lot of complaining, a lot of claims, but ZERO evidence and ZERO suggestions that actually make sense.
Again, for the 4th time: Hitscans are NOT the issue, but this “victim” complex that some projectile users have that just want them to be on the bottom of the barrel. That is not balance, nor never will be.
Oh they have, several times, including the OP. Yours seem to come from that because clearly you think Hitscans are the issue and still have not provided any evidence of that.
Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, beak like a duck, feathers like a duck … you claim its a swan? Suuure.
Saw it, no evidence there either
In OWL also we have seen a lot of Genji played and No Baptiste (who is hitscan) , also a lot of Sigma so IDK why are you bringing that up because it doesnt support your narrative at all.
No, because that would be false. As a Mei main, I can’t afford to spam her right click.
projectile heroes typically have a weapon which shoots SO slowly that they can’t have more than one shot in the air at once. I think junkrat is literally the only one which does this.
your argument sounds like in your head that the are hit scanning to the perfect range, and then hanging around for someone to walk into. If a shot is in flight towards the target, they are not in any danger of being hit by it until it gets there. Once it is there, a fraction of a second later, it isn’t, and no longer is a danger to that target.
The difference is, the target can see projectile coming, and can step out of the way.
Top down twin sticks they are also common in. Turn based is also all hitscan by definition.
Projectile heroes are typically off meta. We should see things like Junkrat, Torb, and Mei meta’s as often as we see meta with S76 or Widow or Tracer.
That is really where all of this is coming from. If the argument is we should have the heroes be balanced, and to balance for the top of the game, then they should do so.
But that means things like Torb, Junkrat, Mei not being a joke pick in OWL. (yes, Mei is being played in OWL, but I also realize how rare that is, and how quickly she was nerfed out last time she was.)
I think Projectile works well on ladder, and outside of Junkrat, they are not “weak” there. But lets not have a double standard about where they balance for, and what is played there.
Yes, I think that the project players complaining about their heroes not being strong is a bit of a joke, but in saying that, Blizzard should, if they are going to actually try to wave the “we balance for pro play” need to actually put in real balance for pro play.
