Hanzo's Storm arrows nerfed to 70 damage to protect Tracer

I’m well aware of what her pick rate was before Brigette. However Brigette is getting nerfed with her interaction with tanks, which last I checked tracer is not a tank, and getting a damage nerf on her shield bash not “specifically against tracer” as you put which is just an incorrect statement. The parts of her kit and interactions that countered tracer and dive comp in general still remains.

I said it made it a lot weaker specifically against Tracer because it is true!

Tracer is the only hero that can be 1-shot by the combo but now it can’t do that.

Sure it is an overall nerf but it benefits Tracer by far the most out of any other hero.

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If you force her recall she doesn’t have any reliable escapes. Most abilities have cooldowns shorter than her recall.

A flanker without an escape is as good as a dead flanker.

This is the exact same reason people wait for Sombra’s unstealth to be called by a teammate before destroying her TL. If she unstealths in your team and has her TL destroyed afterwards she can easily be turned on and killed, if Tracer goes in without her recall it should be easily to force her blinks to force her to run again for 9-12 seconds or just kill her.

So for a hero to be countered it requires them to be one shot? Got it. I guess I was looking at it wrong from a team perspective of the healing and armor brig provides to heavily reduce the effectiveness of her pulse pistols, the 110hp combo she’ll still be able to put down on tracer, as well as the stun that goes into it leaving time for your team to land the 40hp left to kill her or force the recall.

In Tracer’s case, yes!
Orion has already explained pretty well why:

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With her linear blinks it’s extremely easy to position in a place where she’ll have to either expend all of them to escape or have no escape if she tries to get on you without recall.

Literally every issue the people on the forums seem to be having with Tracer can be easily dismissed as l2p issues. If you’re struggling with things like this you simply need to get better at the game, the only ranks where Tracers should be doing this is GM+ and if you’re in GM+ and still don’t know how to play around a Tracer to minimize her solo impact then that’s really on you.

Then it wouldn’t hurt Tracer if we took away her ability to solo-kill the supports she’s meant to counter? Sounds good to me. I think that’s completely fair for a hero that can only effectively be dealt with by 1-shots in a game where all 1-shots are slowly being removed.

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This is so far from the truth and you’re using someone else’s flawed argument to back up your own. If a tracer goes in with no way of escaping with recall she’s dead, like dead dead unless she frags out or her team is enabling her, which can make any hero powerful in that situation. her recall is on a longer cooldown that brig’s shield bash meaning that you can essentially do this combo every single time she comes in to force a recall or kill her. You’re just asking for ways to crush her value even more because from what it sounds like you have trouble with tracers.

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Tracer getting special treatment?!

Nerf Hanzo some more then! :rofl:

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You mean exactly what Brigitte does with her armor pack?

Seriously, Tracer’s impact basically revolves around her ability to remove a squishy from the fight entirely, if she couldn’t solo kill one then they’d just be healed up instantly and be back in the fight (Essentially what Mercy did with her instant E ability rez, but much more frequent and applies only to heroes without strong burst like Tracer, while not being an issue for heroes like Widowmaker and Hanzo)

Brigitte didn’t counter Tracer by oneshotting her with a BS combo, she countered her by burst healing her teammates and providing armor which halves Tracer’s damage, stopping her from easily dispatching them.

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Really? If you force her recall she suddenly has no escapes? Does using Recall disable Blink?

…Hang on, that’s not a bad nerf idea.

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I agree with that, but disagree with the idea that Recall is Tracer’s only escape tool. She still has Blink, and Blink allows her to reach health packs before anyone else. Tracer with Recall removed from the game would still be an effective hero just because of Blink.

Blink isn’t a reliable escape for everyone, but it is for someone who has good map knowledge and awareness.

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Then I’m not sure what your stance is on this. In one post you claim that countering =/= solo killing 100% of the time in any situation, but in another you allow Tracer that special treatment?

Any flanker’s value is not solely in getting kills. Flanking in itself splits resources between two different fights so the more important one can be won more easily for the flanker’s team. Even if you get no kills, having the enemy main and off healers dealing with you while your team takes a 5v4 with healing advantage = a win 100% of the time. This is where Tracer becomes a god because she can effectively never die as long as no one-shots exist, letting her distract the healers she seriously threats forever.

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I’m not understanding where the thought has come up where in order to be a counter you need to kill the hero as opposed to using your kit to reduce the value that hero can have in a team fight.

Brigitte gives armor as her ult and her repair pack for burst healing is on a pretty long CD you know.

Torbjorn used to be able to give everyone 75 armor freely as an ability, you could also consider that burst healing if you want because it effectively give you an additional 75hp instantly.

While armor is good against her and so is burst healing, it is a soft counter at best and only delays the Tracer.
Hard counters persist of being able to burst Tracer down reliably, which Brigitte could do if Tracer tried to do her job.

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Yes, this was necessary. Hanzo had way too reliable source of burst damage.

There’s a difference between countering through prevention and countering through killing; Brig still prevents Tracer from getting some free kills due to her CC and armor.

Even I who hate everything about OW and Blizzard realizes this…

Blink isn’t a reliable escape, even if she uses no blinks to engage 3 short linear jumps doesn’t really allow you to escape after things go south when an engagement goes wrong.

If supports are positioned well then Brigitte should be in a place where she can peel for both the other supports (She’s optimal in 3 support comps) if for some reason the 2 other supports can’t sustain eachother in a Tracer ambush all Brigitte has to do is hit her with one shield bash and even if the other 2 supports are completely incompetent and can’t land ONE Ana shot, Zen ball, Lucio headshot or simply damage boost the Brigitte / Apply Discord which you don’t even have to aim to put on the Tracer then the next time she engages you can do the same thing and burst heal whichever of the 2 supports she goes for first and combo her again, which if she doesn’t have recall up it should be incredibly easy for either of the other supports to finish her off.

Literally the only way for Tracer to realistically get away after being hit with a Brigitte stun, even with recall up is for Brigitte’s team to be borderline AFK, 2 of the abilities that guarantee a kill don’t even have to be aimed (Damage boost & Discord orb) and landing a shot on a stunned Tracer is incredibly easy regardless of who you’re playing.

To bring this back to Hanzo, if he lands a headshot on her and forces her recall then she has virtually no way to get on the vulnerable targets since even with 3 blinks up the supports should be able to jerk eachother off enough to kill her or cause her impact to be nothing while still sustaining their tanks.

If Blink isn’t a reliable escape, then literally nothing but Translocator is a reliable escape.

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If this were the case then hanzo would hard counter every hero in the game. In one cooldown he has the potential output of 840 damage. This isn’t how this game works. A widow can counter a tracer without ever killing her by denying the space she’s able to utilize to do her job. A good ana can counter a zen by denying the healing of trance every time he uses it without ever killing the zen directly. Counter play is more than just “I have an advantage and can one shot you, so you’re countered.”