Hanzo should have fall-off damage

[GreyFalcon-11737]

I don’t, Blizzard know what his winrate is… they certainly don’t need your ignorant and disingenuous opinion.

But apparently you need me to point out how you’re wrong.

Funny how little people care about the math involved with numbers.

[Dak-1914]

Funny how you act like you can quantify deviations in performance between multiple players.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Funny how you act like you can quantify deviations in performance.

Deviations in numbers, not actual performance.

Winrate is prorated based on time played.

And attack focused heroes Win by having less time played than the opposing team.

[Ryzik-21826]

As someone who loves hanzo, and liked him before his rework, I hope you’re trolling by suggesting drop off to a hero who only became publicly hated recently. Because it’s tragic that you wouldn’t stand by your hero if you’ve played him this whole time

Here is the thing about drop-off.

If Hanzo was given the same drop-off as Ashe for example which is 30-50m.

Hanzo would still be able to 1-shot someone a considerable distance over the 30m range.

This is 99% of his engagements, anything beyond this I think it is fine for him to lose.

Yes no more super long-shots but I think this is fine. It makes his spam into chokes less effective and slightly less overall damage output but once again he can stand to lose a little bit.

His playstyle would be mostly unaffected, he would be slightly weaker but equally I am not suggesting this as a nerf for Hanzo more of a rebalance. If he ends up too weak, I would expect buffs etc.

Basically put, I do not think that giving him drop-off would affect my enjoyment of the hero however it would open up design space and potentially make Hanzo slightly less frustrating to fight against.

[Dak-1914]

We’ve already been through this… if a hero wins 5% more than other heroes, when you look at that delta in winrate over 6 months it tell you that regardless of how long they’re played or which mode they’re played on they’re contributing something to the win… they’re doing something valuable in that match that allowed their team to win.

Dismiss all of the unpopular/unappealing heroes with low pickrates and this holds even more weight. Anyway you ‘don’t believe in winrates’ or whatever, so why refer to them?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

If a hero were played only on attack, and both teams played that hero.

You’d have a negative winrate. Because the losing team played Attack for longer than the winning team.

[Dak-1914]

And if we were talking about a hand full of games that might be relevant.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Wouldn’t more games reinforce a data distortion trend like that?

[LuckyDucky12-11252]

Hanzo is not a sniper but he has the long-range sniping capability of one!

Why?

Hanzo was created to be a hybrid of a sniper and frontal assault. That’s why.

[Dak-1914]

Not if they have a decent pickrate, ofc not.

[LuckyDucky12-11252]

I’d actually give him a reverse fall off since I’m tired of him killing flankers. It depends if you wanna make him more of a sniper or a mid range hero

He’s got to be able to kill flankers in some capacity.

What’s wrong with the people on these forums thinking that everyone should roll over and die to flankers?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Not if they have a decent pickrate, ofc not.

This is like explaining calculus to a preschooler.

[Reith-1609]

That is also spam but not 1-shot spam.

Yeah, Zen doesn’t even have 2-shot spam because his orb has a range limit so they’ll live with 8 health if you dink them twice

[Ryzik-21826]

The trick being, if you shot a bodyshot with a Widow, and then changed up another.

You’d do a grand total of 240 damage.

Hanzo can do 475 I that time frame.
With Reaper doing 480.

I think you are missing the point.

The point is neither Hanzo or Widow can actually do this!

Hanzo cannot deal 475 damage in that time frame and neither can Widow deal 240.

You have to include the charge time! It is part of their DPS!
Reaper’s weapons don’t require a charge time but you are acting like the heroes that do don’t actually have to charge up their weapons.

Another example would be like if you showed a full charged Zen RMB against Reaper or Hanzo.

Zen would absolutely destroy both of them!!!
Zen’s RMB shoots 5 orbs in less than 0.5 seconds, each dealing 60 damage.
That is 300 damage in 0.5 seconds excluding headshot!!
He then deals 60 damage with a fire-rate of 2.5.

The point is that he can’t actually do this!!!
It takes Zen 2.5 seconds to fully charge a RMB, so you have to include its charge time as part of its DPS otherwise you would be portraying Zen as having the highest DPS in the game.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

I think you are missing the point.

I think that’s less relevant for a hero with no reload, and the awareness of what threats they will face a half second beforehand.

That it’s far less realistic to compare how Hanzo would do when ambushed, and as a sniper he should have weaknesses for getting ambushed.

[Dak-1914]

Unlike you I don’t think that [insert any hero] only gets played for 50% of an attack round, over 10,000s of games. Although I do think that even if a hero is only picked under those circumstances and when that hero is picked for that purpose the team goes onto win a majority of the time - more than almost every other hero… that pick was obviously effective towards that win.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

Unlike you I don’t think that [insert any hero] only gets played for 50% of an attack round, over 10,000s of games. Although I do think that even if a hero is only picked under those circumstances and when that hero is picked for that purpose the team goes onto win a majority of the time - more than almost every other hero… that pick was obviously effective towards that win.

You think more data points to reinforce a trend, is going to make that trend weaker?

[Ryzik-21826]

I think that’s less relevant for a hero with no reload, and the awareness of what threats they will face a half second beforehand.

That it’s far less realistic to compare how Hanzo would do when ambushed, and as a sniper he should have weaknesses for getting ambushed.

So are you even denying the fact that it is misleading at this point and just trying to come up with reasons to justify it?

You made a video that I was meant to demonstrate Hanzo’s DPS in a factual manner.

I am not denying that Hanzo would indeed start drawing his bow but the point in your video is that you are comparing Hanzo’s DPS to Reaper’s.

That is simply not Hanzo’s DPS which makes it misleading because that is how you are presenting it to be.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

I think that’s less relevant for a hero with no reload, and the awareness of what threats they will face a half second beforehand.

That it’s far less realistic to compare how Hanzo would do when ambushed, and as a sniper he should have weaknesses for getting ambushed.

So are you even denying the fact that it is misleading at this point and just trying to come up with reasons to justify it?

You made a video that I was meant to demonstrate Hanzo’s DPS in a factual manner.

I am not denying that Hanzo would indeed start drawing his bow but the point in your video is that you are comparing Hanzo’s DPS to Reaper’s.

That is simply not Hanzo’s DPS which makes it misleading because that is how you are presenting it to be.

I think it’s accurate for relevant situations Hanzo will face.
Like seeing that Winston jumping towards him.
So you prep an arrow, leap back, and either melt the Winston or melt the barrier.

[Dak-1914]

uhh, no… isn’t that what you seem to believe? I think that if the trend is that when a hero is picked their team goes on to win more often, whether they played 1/4, 1/2 or all of the match… and you have 6 months worth of ‘data points’, that’s a trend that suggests that hero is good at enabling their team to win the game.

Why, what do you think?