Team idea doesn’t work that way and isn’t as trival as you are trying to make it. Synergies matter more than “strength”. Its never been about individual heroes but the overall game is why things get popular and fall out of popularity. At the end of the day there still are 5 other heroes on the team of any individual hero that can be played and if they shut down they are built to deal with you then your “strength” doesn’t mean much.
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That’s part of the point the fact that its so in exact. But 1k isn’t exactly accurate either considering that would mean d.va got one ultimate the entire match. That’s not exactly realstic is it
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Ordinarily I might agree with you, but Genji and Ashe being meta during double barrier pretty much refutes that whole point. That’s two characters who absolutely don’t synergize well with the comps they are played in, but they are overall stronger choices then the characters that “fit the mold” better.
Not necessarily, if she pops a Rein/Sig shield with only 200 health left that’s only 200 damage. Most Bombs at that level are LoS blocked or used for zoning, and don’t get much damage/kills unless combo’d with EMP or Shatter.
How about you start working to get better?
Funny how D.VA mains outcry about Genji, we killed you pre buff with ez before anyway.
Why are we using this example as rule and not an exception? If you are inclined to agree with me does that not mean that it more common to be as I said?
The damage threashold can be higher than actual hero healthpools (Reinhardt shield health) in one shot though. The fact it is hugely swingy makes her damage way more complicated. And the amounts that it swings so much is a problem.
Hold on, this is counting not just hero damage here. It is damage including barrier damage. Overbuff is useless for this argument as they have not updated to show the “new” hero damage stat. I was referring to hero damage obviously as her ult is pretty useless damage during double barrier. But even with barrier damage, your best argument is she out barrier damages rein by a tiny amount. Rein does no barrier damage while dva shoots forever at barriers and her ult does thousands of barrier damage per game 
way more than the gap on the outdated stat site.
Overbuff shows total damage for rein including barriers at 11,500 average per game
Overbuff shows total damage for dva including barriers at 13,900 average per game
Hard to tell cause the site is outdated and still does not show hero damage. But if I had to guess I’d say this aligns with my experience of close to 7000 real hero damage for dva per game.
So yeah, I exaggerated. She does half as much damage as rein, not a third as much.
Because the current situation shows that is not the rule, and that if a character is strong enough they will be the meta regardless of synergy.
Except…
A: Barrier damage is rarely “useless.”
B: The numbers don’t change if you look at 6 months, which the bulk of was Rein-Zarya, not double shield.
C: She averages nearly 7 more elims a game as well, showing the bulk of her damage isn’t Bombs into shields.
She isn’t doing less damage then Rein, and certainly not half as much.
Thats not how it works that not how any of it works at all. A fluke or an exception doesn’t prove the rule is wrong or right. It just shows that there are times when that rule doesn’t matter as much because of additional factors. And if you look at the non-dps picks the team comp is very much synergstic.
Also dps is probably the categories with the loosest synergies in the entire roster of heroes. Torb and Genji combo is not nearly as problematic to a team comp as Hog/D.va or a bad healer combo. All that really matters for your dps picks is that they get kills and both Torb and Genji can do that.
A: Barrier damage <<<<<< Actual hero damage and Rein can’t do shield damage so yeah akward. Actually killing a target is always more useful than shooting a resource that comes back
B: the numbers again don’t mean what you think they mean as there are more complications like the fact d.va has a bursty nuke that can do well over 200 damage
C: Eliminations is a terrible terrible stat that includes literal one damage pokes and as such shotgun heroes tend to get them easier than any other hero. As litterally a single pellet that is easily healed off can count as an elemnation
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Rein does ZERO damage to shields. And d.va shoots shields all the time, plus her ult. So yes, actually, it’s very fair to assume her infinite ammo + ult equals about half of that damage being to shields and only half of it to heroes. And then of course the question of elims, easily her trash damage spam gets elims she didn’t deserve. Doesn’t mean she’s actually getting more kills than him. This is why I’m focused on hero damage instead.
Agree with you here. DPS certainly have more freedom to become meta outside of team synergies then other classes.
…all of this is completely irrelevant, because this is what was said and I replied to:
…which is completely untrue, which was the whole point. We can argue hero damage vs barrier, and how much damage Bomb pulls per match, but it doesn’t change the fact that the initial statement that this is all spanning off of is a complete fabrication.
Yeah, I’d been saying this. Arguing that it’s ok to have a useless throw pick in the game, because they were apparently one of the best in the game isn’t a good argument.
Having bad balance be a theme of the game, and have the crap character for the time being rotate, doesn’t fix anything. It’s still the issue of horrible balance. Just a different character is on the bottom. Rather it’s D.Va, Reinhardt, Orisa’s, time of the month (or year) its a problem.
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The thing is you are basically saying look at this meter number and acting like it is all that matters. There is a lot of fluff damage and the fact Reinhardt litterally can swing at a barrier for centuries and not have his number go up at all. That alone makes things more complicated but it keeps getting pushed aside to prop up the higher number as gospel. What kind of meta are we in right now double barrier? Oh right that means two heroes per game have an ability that rein damage doesn’t go up by at all but d.va does.
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Why bother? He was already F-tier for 3 years.
No, you decided to ignore that modern overwatch separates hero damage from barrier damage stats, I had no idea you would pull stats that included both, I ALWAYS meant hero damage because the more general stat is LITERALLY USELESS for learning anything about the state of a hero in double barrier spam meta.
I mean I looked up the actual numbers before making that claim about DVAs damage. The actual numbers back my claim. The actual numbers back what I am saying about DVA doing more damage than the heroes I listed (and for everyone but Winston the damage is within about 15% of each other).
Meanwhile yes, the mobility does matter. The job of a tank is to take a location. How you do that varies with each tank. Ball blocks the least damage in the game, but he is a fine tank because he helps with that goal. Lower ranks are perfectly balanced right now, but the reason Hammond is bad there is because people are not good at both playing Hammond and taking advantage of timing windows (and communicating).
So basically you have DVA who does slightly above average damage for a tank, 2nd best mobility among tanks, and a decent ultimate if well practiced. Basically it is not hard to see why she got picked.
After 2 months a meta is set. Slight fluctuations happen here and there but it was 2 months before the nerf went live. This is like saying Genji will be fine because in 6 more weeks his pickrate might fluctuate down. DVA went from having a 8% pickrate so I think around 6.5% when the nerf went live which basically meant she went from statistically being in every game to being in about 7-8/10 games.
Also everything I said was something that could be easily verified aka a fact. When something can be proven right or wrong and it is proven right it is a fact. If I were to say Genji’s shurkians do a lot of damage, that is an opinion. If I say they do a maximum of xxx damage in x time (I am not looking up an example) that is a fact (assuming I got the numbers right). If I say his max damage is higher than say Widow’s that is verifiable (I have no idea if it is right or wrong) and therefore is either fact or fiction. The things I called fact were verifiable as facts. The things others called them were either provably false or not verifiable
https://gfycat.com/allspiritedcub
theres literally no other hero in the game that can make plays like this
he should never have been weak for so long. I dont agree with him being this strong and think they should 100% nerf his ult charge rate by around 15%, but hes genuinely a good hero to be strong.
No, I’m simply saying that the initial statement of “Dva does 1/3rd the damage of Rein” is factually incorrect and biased with no basis in the game we play.
I’m not saying Dva is better then Rein, or that she’s in a great spot. Just that a statement made was false.
Except we can filter by 6 months, which the vast bulk of was Rein-Zarya, not double barrier. It still doesn’t change the numbers much nor the fact that Dva averages more damage.
I’m honestly sick of seeing so many Genjis in my game. I’d so much rather see every other character. There was never a time where Genji wasn’t played once every 5 games. I’d rather see some more Bastions, Syms, Torbs now honestly. Even Echo, I never see her being played at all anymore. It’s only Genji and Doomfist all the time.
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This is fully incorrect. GOATS was a comp people begged others to play for SR sometimes, but GOATS never saw widespread use below GM and was a very rare comp below plat.
Brig was a must pick of all variations of GOATS (along with Lucio) and Brig’s pickerate in GM peaked at 7% which is a little less than half of all games. That will also include some games (probably not many though) where Brig was played in a non GOATS comp. In masters Brig peaked at 5.7% or a little under 40% of games. Below diamond she peaked at like 4-4.5% which is only 25-30% playrate. And for those lower tiers she was often getting played outside of GOATS compositions which means GOATS in mid tiers was run like less than 1/5th of games. Which was roughly my experience as a plat diamond player. It did see decent playtime in my tiers, but it was an exception not a rule.
Worth noting Ana was the most picked support in plat to GM during GOATS despite Zen and Moira GOATS variations being the norm in OWL where GOATS was almost always played. Widow, Genji and Hanzo were the most picked dps on high tier ladder during GOATS and all had decent playrates as we would expect when GOATS was run under 1/2 of all games there (much less by the time 2-2-2 came out).