The spread reducing buff is stupid, because outside of being completely counter-intuitive, anyone who you want to use it to kill will just outdamage you before unless it literally takes one second for it to become as accurate as possible (i.e. Hanzo.)
I kinda wish he could “spin-up” manually (when not reloading) and reduce his spread without shooting (but it’s loud)… not sure if that would get a bit OP though. Either way, I think if they do it right, it could be a really good change. And a bunch of games do that with LMGs. Pretty sure Black Ops 3 or something has a HAMR gun that does that.
You didn’t pay attention to what I put, if he also has a healer on him and focuses mercy. Also, I said bastion not at sniper range, which is the only range he will do less than 50dps. If he focuses mercy she will retreat and pharah will be either left alone, or also retreat. Also, if you are worried about movement, recon mode can headshot and you can move, so easy to kill pharah if you can aim. He needed those nerfs as he was melting people even more than now. Pharah + mercy does not make pharah a bastion counter, it makes those 2 combined a counter. Bastion still counters pharah.
The BO2 sentry gun did that if you took manual control or the death machine also did, as it was the sentry gun but in your hands.
I’m saying ignore all healers. No one has a healer. I only stated that Mercy can outheal him because that means that he’s doing 50 DPS or less, and that proves it. And is Volskaya B to the choke “sniper range”? Because that’s the distance I gave. I’ve had that happen many times.
Yes, Recon is more accurate and can headshot. But if Bastion’s answer to every problem is “just use Recon instead”, then why play Bastion over Soldier? Soldier is better at controlling his spread, which makes him a more effective Pharah counter than Recon mode Bastion.
Given only Bastion and Pharah, Pharah will win every time unless the player is stupid. If you’re managing to lose as Pharah against a Bastion, rethink your playstyle. If you’re just assuming that Bastion wrecks Pharah, and you’re not speaking from experience, go play one of them. You will either wreck Bastion as Pharah, or get wrecked by Pharah as Bastion.
I already told you I have 20 hours on bastion, so I am speaking from experience. If you are trying to say that my argument makes my experiance invalid, or somehow you have twisted it so that I am the pharah and losing a lot, you are incorrect. Also, recon mode is better for range as it can do the same amount of damage at sniper distances as at 2 feet away. Sentry mode is better at short to medium range for massive damage. Pharah will never win a 1v1 against a bastion if they have any idea of how to use him. I haven’t even brought up his own healing yet or that pharah cannot heal herself. The door to point b is at the edge of medium to long range, so it makes sense he is losing his edge in sentry mode. Recon mode is better than soldier 76 at long ranges, and turret is better than soldier at closer ranges. Your argument boils down to he will lose as he does less than 50 dps at long range against a character with no fall off so he is UP. This true of his damage, but is intended as he should not be able to out damage a healer at all ranges. He is OP then and would be a must pick
Recon mode has damage falloff, not sure what you’re getting at here…
You must have fought a lot of really bad Pharahs then… If she stays at a reasonable distance for a Pharah, there’s no possible way a Bastion can win.
Bastion heals at 75 health per second, and Pharah does 120 damage per rocket with a fire rate of 1.33 per second. If Bastion heals, he’s most definitely going to lose because he just gave Pharah completely free damage.
Soldier’s falloff range: 30-55 meters
Recon’s falloff range: 26-50 meters
Soldier does more damage at longer ranges
At very close range, yes. At anything beyond about 20 or 25 meters, no. Here’s some data on that if you want it. That can be taken as a best possible case scenario against squishy targets because the training bot is much fatter than squishies, and roughly the same height (give or take about half a foot or so).
Volskaya B to the choke is not long range. He shouldn’t be able to counter snipe a Widow, but he should be able to do decent damage within his effective range (35-55 meters for Sentry).
im still shocked at the amount of people that think bastion’s issue is DAMAGE…
Yeah, his damage is only really an issue when dealing with either a charging Rein or a Roadhog pressing E… everything else he’s pretty decent at when strictly speaking about damage. His main problem is his consistency, which will hopefully be fixed tomorrow if they 1) push the buff through, and 2) they do it properly…
I don’t know what to tell you, bastion’s problem is not damage or range. He has problems, but it boils down to no mobility in a mobile game. His playstyle can’t be balanced when he is the only stationary character in the game. Not enough damage, flanker destroy him. Too much and he destroys anything that can’t teleport. Middle ground he murders any comp that isn’t dive to destroy him. He can’t be balanced around mobile and semi-mobile characters while being the only stationary one. It doesn’t work well. I mean, I am sure it theoretically could be balanced eventually, but it would be a very fine line. I can admit my numbers may have been wrong, but that is based on my time played and pharah is still easy for me to kill in my plat games as bastion.
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His problem is definitely range. Range and consistency. They decided that a 3 degree spread was too much for Sombra, a hero that can turn invisible to get in the enemy’s face, but it’s fine for Bastion who can’t move at all in Sentry, and has no extra mobility in Recon? No… I never said his issue was his damage, I even agreed with the post saying that damage wasn’t his problem (other than a couple edge cases).
Being stationary is fine because he’s not meant to be in Sentry mode for long. He’s meant to swap to Sentry, get a pick or two, swap back to Recon, and move on. That’s why Ironclad was a mistake. It encourages players to sit in Sentry mode for too long, and also actively discourages players from using Recon because they lose that damage resistance. If they want to make Bastion an all around better pick, they need to rework Ironclad into something that isn’t as OP as a passive damage resistance, and can reasonably affect all modes instead of just Sentry and Tank.
Bastion’s main issues at the moment are his poor consistency, his poor range due to spread, and the fact that sitting still all game is encouraged while moving around is discouraged.
I agree you shouldn’t just be sitting around and iron clad ruined that, but that should fix the range problem. If you are constantly moving, you shouldn’t be getting further away from the enemy, you should be flanking and setting up in strategic places like chokes to kill. You have to play closer due to the range problem. This prevent people making fortresses with Orisa and Rein and letting bastion destroy with no risk. If he could stay stationary and shoot even medium range at higher dps than now, he will be pushed further to a stationary life and OP damage
Did you know:
Bastion non-turret mode DPS is equal to S76 or even better?
Bastion have a self-heal ability
Bastion Ult can one shot people
At this point only noobs bastion go in turret mode without a rein/orisa on their teams. I prefer bastion over S76 this days
You can’t safely play within the ranges where a 3 degree spread would provide reliable damage. Not sure if you looked at the thread I posted a while ago, but his damage numbers get bad fast. So much so that if you’re not playing within about 20 meters, it’s better to just play Soldier because you have roughly the same damage output, but you aren’t the size of a tank, and you don’t have a 1 second setup time to use your damage.
So you agree that he has a range problem…?
So you’re suggesting to play Bastion in front of your shield tanks because you’re not meant to play him at medium range?
I am saying his range is problematic for a reason. If he had the range of soldier and mccree, there would never be any reason to play them, as he does more damage
Flanking as in off to the side, not sitting in front of your tank. Suprising the enemy with a flank can almost insta kill 2-3 people if they are slow to react or can’t find you
Soldier has a sprint, a smaller hitbox, a smaller critbox, a burst damage ability, better spread control, better damage per second, better mobility (via helix jumps), shooting while healing, healing his team, and an easier ultimate.
Recon has a better maximum spread.
Bastion cannot shoot during his self-heal, he has to choose between fighting and healing.
Bastion’s ultimate is one of the most skill dependent in the game. It’s basically Pharah without the flying. He can rocket jump, but that takes away one of your 8 shots. Once you get good at it, it can be really good, but it’s pretty difficult to get good at.
Bastion was still F-tier before his rework when he had better spread and headshots. Soldier and McCree dominated the DPS slot back then.
That’s a pretty big if though… It almost never happens. Most people are pretty good at locating the loud minigun beside them.
Yes, but you have time before they can find cover or even shoot back even if they do locate you. Their tanks will have to chose to defend the front or you, enabling your team to push up. Dps have to switch targets and try to get cover. Supports are running and panicking as whoever you shoot at is melting in front of them and the are trying to heal them. Once the panic is wearing off, or you team wipe get up and move. This is the riskiest part as if they are alive you are at your most vulnerable
Okay, lets say it does work. But if he remains bad at mid-range, then that’s the only valid strategy for playing him… He can’t play like a normal DPS alongside his team because he won’t get anything done. And maybe maybe if you do it once, the enemy team will fall for it again, but there’s no way they’ll fall for it a third time. And as soon as they catch on, you can’t play Bastion anymore. Alternatively, if they look at the tab menu and notice a Bastion, they’ll be more cautious, and you won’t even get one play out of him.
Again, I’m not arguing for headshots. I’m saying that he needs these spread buffs, and if they are good, but not enough, then consider headshots back. Probably at just a 1.5x multiplier instead of 2x though. Or, reduce his base damage to 12, revert his spread from his rework, add 2x headshots. That puts him at 360 maximum DPS (for bodyshots) instead of his current 450, or a maximum of 720 with 100% headshot accuracy (which won’t happen).
I think thise ideas could work then, I just don’t want the game to become a stationary game of bunker comps. I enjoy playing as a mobile bastion and having to think about my placement. That would make the game super boring to me and ruin bastion as a character to me.