I didn’t say that, they’re both there to compliment each other though. Statistics are misleading though and basing arguments off of these alone might ignore what’s really happening, this is something that’s become all too common in sports & gaming.
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i feel like if anything needs to change its the notion that overbuff is so inaccurate that the stats are meaningless. i have been playing the game for years and looked at overbuff from time to time out of curiosity to see what is being played at different ranks. i have never seen any signs of overbuff data being far from reality. overbuff always seem to follow metas very closely, and every time a character gets buffed or nerfed you can see changes in win/pickrate if you just wait a while and let the data settle.
there was also that time when there was a lot of posts asking for buffs for genji and soldier and i remember overbuff data showing that they were doing fine. i think it was jeff (or geoff? dont remember) who later made a post talking about player conception and pointed out that soldier and genji were doing fine statistically and that the players conception of character strength sometimes differ from what the data shows. overbuff was showing more or less what the devs were saying.
between overbuff and baseless forum posts crying for nerfs/buffs, i would trust overbuff any day. the idea that balance discussions could somehow improve by removing all available statistical data and going only by feelings is ridiculous.
that is not to say that the overbuff is perfect, especially not in higher ranks where there arent as many players. but its got plenty enough data to show a fairly accurate picture of the games balance.
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Do you realise you just went in a giant circle? Because the end result is the same. Unless you mean that even though stats say otherwise you will persist in your feelings being accurate.
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This argument is flawed no matter how you look at it.
Just because Overbuff cease to exist, it does not mean that people is gonna stop playing xyz character who is meta. Specially when things like OWL exist!
Not wanting to use stats just becaus it hurts X person feelings is not healthy. Imagine if real life worked like this.
Suddenly, we will start creating COVID vaccines based on feelings instead of stats and facts lol
UNLESS Blizz shares the real stats, Overbuff is by far the best tool to back up an argument because whether we like it or not, Overbuff has a lot of things that a personal opinion lacks such as: objectivity and a decent sample size to make conclusions.
If you are serious by saying this, then that clearly shows how little do you know about stats benefits.
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If Blizzard gave the actual stats and removed Private Profiles, one of the worse additions to the game, I’d be fine with removing all 3rd party stat tracking sites.
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No. What is misleading is feelings. Stats aren’t misleading. It is how you interpret stats that can get you into trouble which would be your own fault for not interpreting them correctly. A great example of this is if a Widow Player thinks they are amazing because they only look at their Scoped Accuracy and Scoped Critical Hit Accuracy. They can think they are amazing because those stats are top 1% in the world and better than some OWL widow players. However, in reality, they take much fewer shots, shoot into tanks the vast majority of the time and die far too often. That is how people can fool themselves with stats.
A way to help with that issue is to have even more stats which helps give you a bigger picture of what is happening. It is their responsibility to look at all the stats to make a solid argument. That isn’t the stats fault if they fail. Plus, if you are in an argument with someone that does this, you can prove them wrong by using even MORE stats that Overbuff gives you to support your argument over the guy that uses 1 or 2 stats.
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Pretty much this!
Like you said, is not so much about stats themselves but how you interpret them. And that is the part that can be confusing for people.
The Widow example was very ingenious and actually accurate!
(I wish I could upvote you twice lol)
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In this case yeah I’m not really seeing the downside…we use it for making arguments and justifying opinions…pretty much all it’s good for…when people would probably tell the same things just from playing
Not to mention the only stats you should really care about are your own…who cares if say bastion has a negative win rate for example if YOURE always winning with him…or how good hog is if you’re terrible with him
The place where stats REALLY matter is over at blizz hq…and they have all the data anyway
Ding ding ding ding
My issue isn’t with overbuff itself so much as how it’s used…It’s great for us bickering back and forth…but nothing really good comes from it
Titanium did a good post about these types of things a couple of months ago…it’s long but worth a read
OK? So why do you want to get rid of them? Because people interpret them wrong? You can use Overbuff to prove them wrong if they interpret them wrong. It’s almost like you don’t want to be bothered with that at all so you want it to be removed
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Nope, one person experience is not equal to let’s say 300 persons playing the game and getting stats from them. So as much as you value own experience, stats will (almost) always be more important.
Not really.
Specially when 80% of the posts on this forums are about how X character is too weak or too strong. Imagine debating about it just based on each person’s experience… It’d be a complete mess, to say the least. Even messier than it already is.
Just because we don’t like something, it does not mean is not useful!
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The bad outweighs the good imho…And not much would be lost without it…
We can’t tell hero X has a .05 less win rate than hero Y anymore…and we can’t make 300 posts about it…how will we ever recover…
There’s only so many things that can be accounted for when trying to gather statistics, they’ll never show the full story.
There are so many other variables to consider, some of which you can’t even measure. They can be related to things like ult-tracking and positioning to things like teamwork or confidence. The only way to really see how effective they can be is by watching them for yourself.
The bad doesn’t outweigh the good. That isn’t even an opinion. That is a fact. You can’t say something false and throw in “IMHO” and make it ok. That’s like a Flat Earther saying, “imho… the earth is flat.” No. The earth is a sphere. That is a fact.
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Um it is an opinion…and I’ve explained multiple times in this thread why I feel that way
Lets try this a different way…
What would welose without it?..what would the impact be of it not being there?
It’s extremely unlikely that the Overbuff stats doesn’t give you a good picture of what is happening. You bring up teamwork, ult-tracking, confidence and positioning. Yes all of these things are important and can’t be tracked by stats… HOWEVER, if these things are effecting you… then your stats WILL DROP. That is how it is.
Poor positioning? You will die more. Bad at Ult-tracking? You will die more. Lack of confidence? You can see Elims, damage, etc drop. These things will effect your stats. These stats can be used to see a problem and help complement you watching tape to come up with a solution. “Oh? I’m dying a lot lately? Why? I don’t get it. Let me watch back my gameplay. Wait… my positioning has been TERRIBLE! What am I doing?!”
See? Stats don’t lie. They might not give you the reasons WHY they are what they are but they aren’t there to give you a reason. They are there to enlighten you on your performance and your gameplay will give you your reasons
Undeniable Actually useful info…don’t need OB for that…we have access to our own info (the stuff that really matters)
Your own info doesn’t compare to other players though. What if you think 10 deaths per 10 minutes is a normal stat since you’ve always died that often? How would you know that is bad? You wouldn’t. That is why Overbuff is useful. Your own stats don’t tell you anything if you don’t know what is good or bad stats. You can’t know what is good or bad without comparing them to a large amount of people
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My SR would probably tell me that when I’m not climbing
Its one of the most flawed logics you will ever find anywhere. The funny thing is that it doesnt fly in real life. You cant blame a tool for its usage, unless said tool was solely made for 1 purpose and that purpose was pure evil.
Lets apply that logic to knives:
Hey dudes, apparently some people are using knives to stab people so … we are going to delete knives from existence to prevent that “toxicity”.
Cool.
Makes sense huh? 
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