That’s not an invalid argument.
In case you weren’t aware, a pretty sizeable portion of Mercy’s old playerbase liked her because nearly all of her skill came from awareness and decision making.
Valkyrie largely makes it so you don’t need either for 15 seconds… so it really should come as no surprise that a lot of people hate it.
at 50 hps, sure
totally agree
everyone wants their hero to be broken.
Ana: 36.84 seconds
Brigitte: 35.52 seconds
Lucio: 74.83 seconds - 39.8 seconds
Mercy: 40.6 seconds - 20.2 seconds
Moira: 39.54 seconds
Zenyatta: 34.5 seconds - 17.18 seconds
Just gonna leave the math here
tell me which other ult that heals gets completely canceled out by a winston just zapping your team, yes that includes nano and the answer is only valkyrie does Winston cant cancel out a coalescence transcendence or even nano boost (300 hp burst, winston does 30 dps to target 8 second duration can only deal 240 so he doesnt cancel it out by the time the ult finishes).
Now tell me what was it designed to do? Damage boost? I can go Orisa get the same duration ult faster and stronger while a teammate can go a better main healer in the form of Moira or Ana. Healing? It’s the worst ult for that. Dealing damage? Well yeah thats about one of the best things it does but than now you have a dps ult not a support ult. Everything but mediocre? Most likely and thats the problem its everything but mediocre and there are better options for each one that have more impact on their own than valk has for its whole duration
Mass rez didnt heal
Yes I either want my ult to be a challenge with that kind of duration or I went the impact to be a burst and get the easiness over with
I don’t know what more Mercy mains would want. The 30% dmg boost for possibly the whole party is quite powerful, her survivability is still one of the best of the supports, she’s great at pocketing dps, rez is still powerful.
Transcendence is countered by a normal ability from Ana, possibly completely nullified by a good cliff hook or boop or by burst ultimates + possibly Grav.
Nano is a great ult, but any cc and/or burst fire or ult will take a dump on it.
Sound barrier is nice, but it also decays away fast and doesn’t guarantee winning a fight. I can’t be entirely sure, but I think EMP erases it completely, too.
Coalescence is shut down by a simple cc or anti-nade or a dps ultimate, plus a good Widow or DF can just delete her completely (no fade).
Rally is now countered by Molten core, plus it’s always been countered by Grav.
Try fun. People want their hero to be fun and not get reported when they pick them.
Having their hero be broken is actually exactly what no one wants. Then you have to… fight with your teammates to get your favorite hero, endure people yelling at you for picking an OP hero, and try to deal with however Blizzard decides to nerf things.
Transendence: Gives 300 AoE HPS. If the enemy team does not counter it, it makes Zen’s teammates practically invulnerable.
Nano: Heals a friendly hero 300 HP and gives them 50% damage reduction and 50% extra damage. If not countered, that hero will almost certainly cut a bloodly swath through the enemy team.
Sound Barrier: For the next few seconds, Lucio’s team basically can’t die. If they push that advantage, they’ll win the fight every time.
Coalescence: 140 HPs stuffed up a tank makes them insanely difficult to kill. Add in that 70 DPS that is 100% unblockable for 8 seconds… if you don’t manage to stop it early, it’ll go bad for you.
Rally: Everyone should know by now that to counter Brigitte, you stay out of her range and burst her down. Rally (eventually) gives her 100 additional armor and a pretty sizeable movespeed buff. Good luck bursting her down or outrunning her. If you don’t manage to counter Rally, she will smash your face in.
See a pattern here? Yes all those ults are counterable… because if you don’t they’ll wreck you.
What happens if you don’t counter Valkyrie? Well… unless Mercy successfully goes attack helicopter and as long as you don’t waste resources trying to deal with her, not much. Good focus fire makes her healing no better (barely better with the PTR change) than her base healing. Chain damage boost is a half powered Supercharger… which that itself isn’t super intimidating.
Imma just gonna say it, but heck basic abilities like Moira’s orb and Ana’s nade do plenty compared to Valkryie’s healing, and theyre not even ults.
Oh look, it wasn’t a Mercy main that posted the thread so it’s not been deleted.
Yeah except since the nerf it’s so slow that it’s a sure fire way to get yourself killed.
Well… I mean that’s cause Mercy’s real ult is living over on her E button, so her Q ended up as a glorified ability that’s not even interesting.
Preface: I think Valk is boring for the most part, I don’t really think it’s 100% useless.
Eh, I guess the flying is nice, although I feel like the speed isn’t all that great. I understand why the speed was an issue in the first place, but sometimes it feels like I’m moving through quicksand. And I’m not saying buff her speed, I don’t want that.
It’s certainly underrated. Although, I believe the issue is that it makes it boring for Mercy players to use? Because we’re already used to beam juggling, the chained beams just makes our job easier.
Another underrated thing. It’s nice to have. Although, it doesn’t make you immune to visor, deadeye, or Widow shots ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
Or really anyone with good tracking/aiming.
Honestly, it’s really only used on Widows. At least in my experience.
It’s actually super nice to have 60hps back in some form or another. 50hps is what made Valk useless, imo. You couldn’t really heal through anything with 50hps, you might as well just pull out your gun.
I’m often playing Mercy because I want to be the best healer on the field, not because I want to be able to use my ultimate to push an offensive that just gets ultimately shut down by an actually useful healing ult like Trance or Rally =/
Like - sure, great, it’s a great offensive tool. Super. I don’t think people realize how weak Mercy is when it comes to heals right now; there’s literally nothing she can do to make her healing happen stronger, or faster, or better in any way. Lucio, Ana, Moira and Brig all have abilities that amplify their healing output in some way; boost, nade, simultaneous spray and orb, and rally/armor pack - Mercy is stuck at 50 hps forever and ever, amen.
There’s so little for you to impact as a player that it makes it difficult to feel like you’re making meaningful choices that impact the game. With other characters there are combinations you can learn, skills you can master that make your character a force to be reckoned with. Mercy? Less and less.
Not as a Mercy “main” but as someone who finds her a loooot more boring to play and will avoid picking her if possible because of how lame she is now.
The flying doesn’t actually provide much unless you decide to go battle-mercy with it. And that’s not really the intent of the ult, I don’t believe. You’re pretty much just as fine being on the ground, behind cover but still in los of your heal-target. Just fly a little bit up if a ground-based hero like Doomfist is in your danger zone.
Less actual choice to make. You just plop it on the center target and just spin in circles in the air like a derp. Obviously switching between damage amp and heal is still a thing. But you don’t really have to choose a target or think at all, really.
Not something you have to really think or make any decisions on. It just kinda happens and isn’t really in your control.
This is probably a little fun? But a bad use of the ult in most cases I think. Maybe some ‘pro strat’ is to go battle mercy, but I doubt it. It’s the equivalent of jumping off a high ledge to use Lucio’s or Reins ult; it’s fun to do but not the best use.
Lucio’s amp increases his healing. Ana’s nade can increase healing. Throwing a heal orb can increase Moira’s healing. Increasing healing isn’t anything very “ult-like”. Zen’s is enough to save people from most grav-situations. Mercy’s is enough to… actually finally get the team to stop cowering and move forward. So hey, I guess it DOES make things more interesting. :I
Mercy’s ult feels like it demands less from you than even Orisa’s ult. Orisa’s you at least have to think about the best place to put it down, and give it a little protection. Mercy’s you just… “oh I pressed Q, so now I just durrrrrrrrrrrrr for the next 15 seconds” and that sucks. It’s just… slow…
Funny enough, it’s pretty much part of the reason they changed Torb’s ult isn’t it? Because “just making all abilities a bit stronger” isn’t really engaging in any special way? I’d say differently of valk, but the extra flight (which is the only ‘fun’ thing about the ult) isn’t really necessary. Actually, it even just puts you in more danger if the enemy has a widow, ult-ready-soldier or ult-ready-mccree. I will give it this: it ruins doomfist’s day if you see him staring you down. d:
Hopefully I gave a little insight into at least one person’s opinion about why valk is unfun, and removes the fun-ult aspect of an otherwise somewhat-bland healing kit.
Y’all remember when the KOREANS struggled to shoot down a Valk Mercy Pre-Mobility Nerf? With, the best DPS in the world?
Pepperridge farm remembers…
Okay, I am not a Mercy main, but as someone who use to flex to Mercy whenever the team needed a main support, I thought I’d give my thoughts. As a preface, though, I don’t think that it is useless, but more as boring and not impactful enough. Anyways, here are my thoughts on your points:
A) Her mobility was never the issue so the free flight here is really just icing on the cake. Plus (and this is more of a personal gripe), she looks kinda clunky when she flies; like she is a puppet being held up by strings. She doesn’t actually look like she is flying to me.
B) Her niche before the rework was consistent single-target healer. The chain beams steps on Lucio’s shoes, and is in no way where Mercy’s place belongs imo. Plus, there is the whole argument that if you want an AoE heal as an ultimate, Zenyatta has Transcendance; and if you want an AoE damage boost as an ultimate, Orisa has Supercharger. Yes, Mercy’s is more mobile, but if your team is close together, Supercharger and Transcendance do the separate jobs Valk does much better. It’s 60HP/s or 30% dmg boost vs 300HP/s or 50% dmg boost.
C) Again, the self heal really wasn’t an issue. Like, if you’re using Valk to get out of range of Rip-Tire or Dragonblade, sure. That can be useful. But for the most part, the constant self heal is more of an annoyance for the enemy team.
D) Mercy was designed so that her pistol is more of a last resort. Something that she pulls out to defend herself if she has no other options. She wasn’t designed to pull it out whenever she sees an opportunity to get a frag, but now with how Valkyrie is now, it’s common to see Mercy use it just to pull it out and take out the Widow. Yes, that gives it some impact, but Mercy should in no way be an aggressive support. She’s a pacifist.
E) Okay, this is kind of a hot topic right now so I am going to try to be as neutral as I can with this here: Yes, it does increase the healing from where it was before, but it only brings it back to where it was before the healing nerf, and Mercy mains were unhappy with the Valk healing before the nerf because for a support ultimate that should either keep someone up or encourage a push, Valk couldn’t really do that. It can only outheal Moira, Brig, and Winston damage. It’s not an ult to save or start a push, but more of an ult you use when your team is already winning the fight. You don’t have that big ‘spotlight’ moment that every other support has. Lucio has it when his Barriers save someone. Same with Zenyatta and Transcendance. Ana has it when she uses Nano, and even when she sleeps someone. The only two supports that don’t have that moment is Moira (who could probably use some work to make her a viable pick vs Ana) and Mercy (who use to have that moment when rez was an ultimate). Valkyrie does not have that “Wow!” moment because you’re not doing anything different. You can’t really save anyone with her ultimate.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts. I’m a tank/support flex, and while I don’t have nearly as much time as some Mercy mains do, I can still sympathize with what they’re going through. Mainly because I tried to still flex to and enjoy Mercy through her slew of nerfs, but stopped after the healing nerf. This buff really isn’t helping her. It doesn’t fix the issues she has. She is either going to be vastly UP or incredibly OP until they put Rez back as an ultimate or at least something that she has to earn instead of just waiting every 30 seconds for it.
This has been discussed to death already.
But here’s a simple answer. It’s not versatile. It just pretends to be. Just try using valk for more than one thing while using it. Try it. Oh and that one thing you use it for? It’s going to be a garbage version of something else.
Discord boosts the entire team, encourages focus fire, and doesn’t need an ult to do it.
It doesn’t care how far team mates are apart.
Zen can also heal AND do his own DPS while he’s providing discord.
Discord absolutely demolishes damage boost.
Unfortunately that’s very true
A) Did you play the game when Valkyrie went live for the first time? It was stupidly overpowered, it really enhanced Mercy’s kit, just like the developers said/wanted?. But now, after many (required) nerfs (do I have to list them?), even though she can still fly, Valk is an invitation to Tactical Visor, High Noon, Widow/Hanzo shots, and now Torbjorn’s turret. If you get killed, there’s nothing your team can benefit from your ultimate. This happens with Valk only, no other support ultimate except Moira’s have this problem, but If Coalescence gets interrupted (then you were in a bad position) you already hit your allies with 140 hps, YES, 140 healing per second, so you’ve already healed (saved) some of them.
B) Even if its chained, times when your team is together don’t always happen, not becasue of communication, but for team mates required to counter or to deal with some other main targets. And even if they are all together, is this current version of the game, there is a lot of things happening in a team fight (buffs, debuffs, armor, shields, burst healing, stuns, hacks, knockbacks) for Valk to keep teammates alive. Single target beam with more healing output would have been so much better, and it would increase Mercy’s awareness at prioritizing targets.
C) The difference it makes is little, you still have the same HP, capable of being 1 shoted or killed with any massive damage output ultimate.
D) Serioulsy? First, if you do that (with 60hps or not) you are for sure letting one or more teammates die since 50-60 hps is not enough to heal through sustainded damage (this is what main healers do btw). Second, do you want to get reported? your angry teammates may want to report you. You can only feel free to do that if the teamfight is over and no other ally needs help, then you can chase that squishy trying to scape. However it doesn’t happen nowadays very often, because you or your teammates (more likely) are dead. Damage boost then? Nope, same thing happens, you have to prioritize healing because hps is too slow to have the time to dmg boost an dying team mate.
E) It means nothing, there’s nothing new. This is where she was 1 month ago. Same problems.
Useless? YES. Underpowered. It is not a game changing ultimate. Not engaging nor rewarding not impactful. Can’t compete with other support ultimates, want numbers? 300 burst healing Nano, 140 hps ‘s Coalescence, 750’s Sound barrier, Transcendence’s 300 healing per second, Rally’s 300 armor. To give you better data: Winston’s primary fire is 60 dps, the lowest in game, if a teammate is being attacked ONLY by Winston, he will never die o fully healed… now imagine the same scenario in a team fight not only with Winston attacking. Valk just can’t keep up.
I am a Ana main, 180+ hours (I’m very happy with this meta), 4 out of my top 5 most played heroes are supports, having 25+ with my least played support (Brigitte, she’s new) I’m also support main, and I can say Mercy needs more than some partial revert. Way more.