Yeah we’ve been over this. “Genji kept me out of support queue” is your narrative, but the actual reason has more to do with supports feeling like they can’t control the fight like tank/dps.
Yeah, but you used a wrong example because Brigitte was actually op and not people being bad. Better example is if sombra should still get more nerfs because hack and stealth are still annoying.
genji is finally powerful they better leave him alone. hes been underpowered for all of ow1.
When they go ask the supports they say “we are flanked too much”. Lowering Genji’s pick rate would help.
I mean, Blizzard CAN read feedback from the supports.
I was using her as a way to 100% show that a hero which IS op, being nerfed, and then needing more nerfs is a thing.
So if Genji was OP, nerfing him and having people complain doesn’t mean he is now immune to more nerfs, PURELY because people complaining about him after the nerf.
Anyway, Genji is likely to be nerfed more directly or indirectly, because supports are still now queuing enough, and they are still saying he is a problem for them.
Nah, this is you reading something that wasn’t there.
Yeah and that’s because Brigitte was still legit op for a very long time after multiple nerfs. Genji is a case of some supports want to never die before other teammates.
Really you haven’t seen complaints that with CC lowered flankers have become too strong?
Because if you think that hasn’t been said, you are in for a shock.
I don’t think they care that they are killed, but that they have a fun time playing.
But say you are right, and THIS is why they are not queuing.
And Blizzard needs them to queue, I guess they will nerf Genji again.
Because my point IS that Blizzard’s hand is being forced here. They have to do whatever it takes to get them to queue.
If that is the problem, then that is what they have to fix. I don’t think it is, but if you are right, then Genji is for it.
You don’t understand, they will do whatever it takes to fix the problem, and IF Genji goes under the bus, then Genji goes under that bus.
If you want Genji to NOT go under that bus, you need to come up with ideas which will fix the problem, in a timely way, which doesn’t involve him going under that bus.
Blaming the supports isn’t a solution, so you if that is your answer, then under the bus he goes.
See that all the time on the forum, but it’s the forum lol.
No they do hate getting killed because they equate having fun as not dying because they have not accepted that it’s gonna happen frequently, sometimes instantly. It’s something tank and dps have long adapted in OW1.
I also said it’s just some supports. Pretty much just the ones on this forum. Get out of this forum and it’s different.
Except Blizzard can confirm the lack of supports is a problem, and they are going to move to fix it.
You can’t dismiss it as a forums problem. Supports are leaving at a high rate than the other roles, and Blizzard can’t afford for that to keep happening.
They have said as much.
You can ignore the problem, and be surprised when Genji goes under the bus, and you can say “it is just a forums problem” then too.
Yeah, but “genji/flanker is the reason” is your narrative, not theirs.
Things that are not balance issues should not be addressed with balance changes.
There’s a big difference between making changes to supports to make them more engaging (but not more powerful) and outright nerfing a character because support players dislike playing against it.
Support players have been notorious whiners too, screaming bloody murder every time Mercy or Brigitte got the slightest tap on the wrist nerf during their reigns of terror despite never actually being dislodged from the place of most powerful hero in the entire game.
It’s funny because “getting flanked too much” is probably one of the last things actually good support players would bring up when asked what they think the problem with their role is right now.
Genji is not the reason for a lack of support players, you’re using him as a scapegoat because of personal bias against the character.
Yes, 100% agree, but Blizzard will while they make time to deal with it.
Doesn’t matter, they are not queuing. - so Blizzard can’t ignore it.
The problem they are trying to fix isn’t high ranks. See them not nerfing Sojourn saying “she isn’t a problem for low ranks”, but they nerfed Genji.
I agree, he isn’t a problem plat+, but Blizzard CAN’T ignore what is going on below that.
low ranks is their “new player intake” ranks, and if they can’t get new players, because no one wants to support, then they have to fix it.
So they will nerf him some more, until they can work out how to fix the problem.
If you can’t understand why having low ranked supports not queue, is a problem for Blizzard they can’t ignore, think about what happens with queue times.
Supports don’t play, because the game sucks here, so DPS / Tank queue times make it so the can’t get / retain new DPS and Tank players. - now if you think about it, this is a TERRIFYING problem for Blizzard to face.
Blizzard can’t ignore that. So by all means say “it is a bad support player problem” - it doesn’t mean Blizzard won’t sledgehammer Genji over it.
You don’t see Overwatch as a game which Blizzard needs a constant influx of new players, but 100% they do.
I keep asking for the Genji players to work out a way to fix it, because THEY are the ones which will take it to the face if there isn’t a good solution.
If they actually thought about the problem, they would see the danger of it to them but they want to ignore the reality of the problem. So, I guess they will take it to the face.
Use your mouse and look up. AD + Crouch spam is a hell of a lot less predictable to deal with than an animation you’ve seen a billion times, and every character in the game can do that. If you haven’t learned how to fight Genji after all this time, either stop playing Support because you’re clearly too used to relying on your team for everything, or look inward for solutions (hint: This is the answer). Never mind that if Genji is nerfed to unplayability (which is what you want), you’ll just find something else to incessantly, and unnecessarily whine about until it’s nerfed into nothingness as well.
It’s time for self-reflection and self-improvement. I love that this place is literally the same as it was last time I was here lol.
They are not queuing.
You can’t blame their playstyle and fix that, you can only change the game until they queue.
People did, and now Blizzard will have to change the game until they get enough support players to play again.
You can’t blame a role into getting them to play.
It is time to consider that Blizzard has to get them to queue, and will do whatever it takes to make them do so.
If you want those changes to not be taking a wrecking ball to the flankers, it is time to think about what they could do to get them to want to play support.
Maybe in the mid ranks, where the majority of the playerbase resides. But this can be attributed due to the fact that DPS will always be the most popular role in a shooter game and tanks take up 50% less of the lobby.
For me personally my average queue times on DPS & Support both hover from around 4-10 minutes at peak times. Tank is the outlier often taking upwards of 15 minutes.
This is in Grandmaster 1, but if the population of one role was much lower than another it wouldn’t only be affecting low ranks, a lower population means a flatter SR curve. For example, in OW1 when Tank was the least played role, the Top 500 cutoff for tank was almost always lower than Support & DPS by a good amount.
Genji will not be nerfed in an attempt to get support players to play more. There is no world where he is the reason for support players supposedly not queueing.
On this forum Genji has always been complained about, no matter how unviable he may be or how overtuned support characters are, supports always find something to complain about.
The biggest problem is supports being so adverse to actually doing more than simply pumping heals into their teammates. This is a player issue that was a problem in OW1, but got magnified in OW2, where supports get less value for simply pumping heals into their teammates and instead have to play more aggressively for value.
I personally think this is just a learning problem right now because we’re in the early stages of the game and the vast majority of support players aren’t used to actually playing like this, but people who play DPS (like Genji) have relied on their ability to take duels and win them for years now.
There’s a reason high ranked support players don’t have issues in OW2, because they not only have better mechanics but they were already conditioned to play their role more aggressively and look for more individual impact rather than simply surviving to pump heals into their teammates.
If they don’t want to adapt to the way Overwatch 2 is played, then that’s on them. This isn’t an issue exclusive to the support role, many people dislike how their roles and heroes are played in 5v5, not everyone is going to be happy with it and Genji cannot be scapegoated as the reason for this.
It’s very clear you’ve just got a personal bias against Genji for whatever reason because you’re so focused on Genji that you don’t realize there’ll always be something new for supports to complain about until they adapt to how 5v5 is played. Genji could be outright deleted from the game and supports who don’t want to adapt will still have a terrible time.
Oh, why are they not queuing? Because the support players are being pretty damn clear about it.
And what do you do to make them queue more?
And what do you do to make them queue more?
AND WHAT DO YOU DO TO MAKE THE ONES IN THE NEW PLAYER RANKS QUEUE MORE?
Just blaming them doesn’t fix the problem.
Blizzard can’t afford that to be the answer. So they will change the game.
Nope, I’m a Sombra / Mei player. My point is they can, and WILL nerf a hero out if they have a problem. Ask me, as a Sombra / Mei player how I know this?
You don’t want to understand or face the problem they need to fix? ok, I guess you will be surprised when he is nerfed out, because of a lack of other solutions.
You can’t see that Blizzard will NOT put up with a lack of new players. You just want to blame the supports for not queuing.
You are full of excuses, but not full of understanding that it is a problem which Blizzard will be forced to fix, or what the fix can or should look like.
You want the supports to the only ones which describe a solution to Blizzard over how to fix the problem, in concrete terms which Blizzard can implement? Lets see how that plays out for you.
There’s no other word to describe this notion that nerfing Genji will be the miraculous fix to all the problems support players have than ‘delusion’.
Not only is this supposed lack of support players a problem that you’re exaggerating to insane degrees, but pretending Genji nerfs are even on the cards right now or will act as some kind of solution to the supposed lack of support players is just straight up wrong.
If they’re not complaining about Genji they’ll be complaining about Tracer, if it’s not Tracer it’ll be Doomfist, if it’s not Doomfist it’ll be snipers, if it’s not snipers it’ll be Pharah and so on and so forth.
The estimate queues times right now at 8pm on a Sunday for NA West servers (all 3 roles are at the same rank):
Tank: > 20 Minutes
DPS: < 5 Minutes
Support: < 3 Minutes
Yes, support is faster, but a discrepancy of 2 minutes isn’t alarming when DPS is always going to be the most popular role in the game by virtue of the game being an FPS and DPS having the largest pool of characters.
It’s not even close to being an issue big enough to warrant balance changes to entire heroes that aren’t even problematic to begin with in a hail mary attempt to lure support players back.
about time genji is strong, i was tired of him being so weak, didnt like him in ow1
I’ve been telling that guy this.
He/she is actually a support main. He’s probably a “sombra/mei main” now because scary genji is blocking his return to support queue and he thinks this is the case for other supports.
I don’t think it would solve all of the problems. But it is likely to be something which happens as part of it.
I guess you can ignore Blizzards posts, and think they are not trying to solve this problem.
Unlikely. Tracer isn’t played in the intake ranks. etc.
Besides if they start queuing more, then Blizzard won’t care what they have to say. But Blizzard can’t ignore the current problem, and they are NOT ignoring it.
But if you want to basically not be part of the conversation about actual solutions, then see how that works out.
Balance changes are the minimal change. reworks is the bigger answer.
I’ve never said it was a miraculous fix, but that it is VERY likely to happen as part of the many changes they will do.
Mei was nerfed out in OW1 because of tank issues. If you think Genji is immune to that, I guess you are about to learn otherwise.
The steps here are.
You are denying step 5 is going to happen, because you don’t like the look of what that will be.
No, they’ve already stated exactly how they intend to solve the problem. Which I referenced when I said:
Mei was nerfed in OW1 because she was overperforming at the highest level at the beginning of role queue. Once Mei was no longer in the meta she didn’t receive any changes until OW2.
Ice Wall
Endothermic Blaster
Endothermic Blaster (Secondary Fire)
Endothermic Blaster (Primary Fire)
Blizzard
RoleQ was a year earlier. July 2019.
So no. What was happening was she was being complained about by Tank players, and blizzard made a bunch of changes to try to keep them queuing.
Now as it happened, they should have done more, since it didn’t work, and we ended up having to 5v5 as a result, Blizzard is WELL aware of what happens if you don’t stop people leaving a role now.
They will do both. They will nerf the heroes which make the supports less fun to play into.