Genji is in a buffed state tho. Like directly. Must we also forget his spread reduction?
Only thing he lost was triple jump, which he was also hard meta during
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Sounds cool but I’m referring to the actual overwatch league not contenders. Play-ins were on old patch and had genji/genji mirror match ups almost every set. I’m not going to pretend the genji nerfs were in the right direction, but he was clearly hard meta in the play-ins not some niche pick.
Honestly, with No CC its his blade that is too much rn. Basically a free win on the fight. That’s all that needs serious changes
I think my original topic on this got a bit side-tracked.
Yes, genji deserves a nerf.
But not to his neutral game.
If we start nerfing heros like this we’ll get stale and boring metas for the rest of OW2s lifecycle.
Genjis power doesnt come from his neutral game damage, but his tech speed.
But the game is USUALLY balanced top-down. And in high level play you’ll see genji as much less a tech-menace, even less so due to his neutral game.
All genji is mainly is a blade bot. Because his blade is extremely powerful.
BUFF his neutral game, and NERF his blade/techs. THAT would make him more on-paar with other DPS in the game.
Alternatively, IF nerfing his neutral game is the only way to get him in line, you need to change the ENTIRE flow of the game.
Burst damage heros win currently, that’s why genji is so powerful. He’s THE burst damage hero.
But doing that would mean restructuring the entire game and well that’s not happening.
2 Likes
Are we forgetting the dragon blade duration nerf from 8 to 6 seconds?
The (needed) deflect hitbox size nerf.
What about his Ledge catapult usage?
The way it, with no doubt or counter argument at that, is.
Burst-damage wins because there is no second tank to peel, and support main-healing is insanely powerful.
You can outtank a soldier; you cant outtank a genji.
And most players cant deal with that. Genji isnt the problem. It’s 5v5 and the MASSIVE changes that brought.
People just need a scape goat. And once genji has been nerfed to 0.1% pickrate, some other poor Hero will get the same treatment.
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First nerf genji, then widow, then maybe hanzo.
Eventually you have BUNKER 2.0, where everything and everyone damage-sponges so much that the game is about as fun as staring at drywall.
BUNKER and GOATS was why OW1 died gameplay whise; and if this ridiculous witch-hunting for a scape goat continues we’ll get much less than 6 years outta the game. Period.
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Nerfing his different animation cancels/combos would instantly have everyone coming to the forums to cry that they’re killing genji. I think they should look at dash resets tbh they’re a very odd mechanic and I can’t think of any other hero that gets an instant 8 second cooldown restored that chains into itself for a meager assist. Makes his ult even stronger as well why does he have so many strong options in one kit with basically 3 passives.
4 Likes
That’s the point of the genji nerfs.
Currently how the game works genji doesnt have ANYWHER NEAR the damage-over-time he would need to even compare to i.e. soldier. - Something the nerf will make even worse.
But his techs benefit off of how the game works atm. - Something the nerf doesnt address; and if a nerf ever should genji will become obsolete as a hero.
It’s not genji being too powerful; it’s genji being genji in a mechanical mess that favors speedy-damage over elongated push-pull fights.
The nerf will eventually cascade into
- Him being useless for long-term fights
- Him being useless for dives or picks
- Him being useless for even the most boring of blade-botting
tl;dr the nerfs will keep coming as long as people complain about the wrong things until genji is, once again, a throw pick in the eyes of everyone.
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The simple answer imo is, however much it hurts me to say that as a support main, nerf healing.
I shouldnt be able to tank someone so much I single-handedly enable them, and disable about 80% of the Hero selection.
It would make for more interesting engagements than “hold W and get heal-tanked”.
Remember why Mercy tanked so many nerfs ?
Because she could babysit a DD and duo-carry the entire game.
It’s exactly that, but times a million in this current meta.
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Catapult was a tech. Clearly not intended gameplay. And as for the blade nerfs, they are irrelevant since, again, CC is drastically reduced.
I really think you are missing that point.
We he too strong in OW1? No
This is not OW1.
Although I will say tightening his spread actually ruined the hero balance. He should not have a functional shotgun
5 Likes
They aren’t relevant tho. The triple jump was literally one of the first nerfs he’s ever gotten so not consequential in this no CC scenario either. People could deal with him before all the CC heroes got released, they just botched the game balance with every new subsequent hero release and the changes from OW1 to OW2, not Genji himself is at fault here.
I’ll just keep ranting I’m in the flow for it (I’m so sorry lol)
Why do people in lower ranks complain about genji ?
Because low-rank players rely on damage-sponging on i.e. infamous picks like Orisa and Hog.
They dont like ACTUALLY having to play the game instead of just getting hard tanked.
It’s the same reason people keep complaining to their healers.
“erhm hey ana heal pls ?”
→ Meanwhile I put 3k healing into the Doomfist trying to 1v5 a Hog/Moira combo.
They are already so used to never dying because they can out-heal any normal damage source, the second something breaks that bronze-rule it’s broken, it’s too powerful, it’s a cheater yada yada.
And I’m not even gonna go over the insane BS that is Kiriko. I might mainly play ana, but kiriko is a walking play-breaker.
What, you just punished the solo-playing DD/Tank who’s clearly inting, not playing with his team or trying to make meaningful plays ?
Welp I guess Kiriko is just gonna /TP into him suzu him, press m1 quickly and undo ALL of the efford you just put into someone who clearly shouldnt see this as a confirmation bias at how to play the game.
No wonder people suck so much and why people think MM is busted beyond what it was in OW1.
I dig the points ur making since it’s not often I see other players, let alone supps defending Genji in the slightest.
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From a mere personal standpoint of very much biased butt-hurt; nerf genji to oblivion.
But for the sake of the game; and my understanding of the game being more than shallow “I dont like please nerf”, I gotta make my stance on enemy soil I guess.
I’m also thinking broader terms as there is DDs/Tanks I like to play which I can see will eventually have the crosshair on their head and that’d annoy me into insanity.
And some I currently have a hard time with which will suffer thereof.
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Only makes u more sympathetic. I’ll keep a enemy Ana alive for a bit longer next time I see one.
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Trust me. Dont do that. Or a very angry orrisa will spear you right back into Hanamura xd
Hahaha yeah that’s tru, I think I’d die anyway if I let her live a bit longer 
11th March '21, 30th June '20, 16th June '20, 10th Dec '19, 9th Aug '18, 10th Oct '17, 23rd May '17. It’s there on the wiki.
Genji has been buffed enough among his nerfs. On top of this, Cassidy lost his stun, so did Brigitte and Mei can only stun in her ultimate after a delay that Genji can escape from.
Sombra counters Genji, how? Oh, the silence? Damn, its like that counters everyone. It’s like saying falling off the map is a counter cos you die.
Genji can still jump, tumble and attack back effectively during the silence. He is not “countered most of all” considering Heroes like Doomfist are not auto-attack reliant heroes and rely on abilities instead.
Oh and look who is getting a nerf. Sombra and Zarya.
Moira is a support. You have more DPS and range than she does. If you are losing a 1v1 against Moira as a DPS then you’re having issues.
Her auto attacks deal slow damage over time. It only functions when in combination with her damage orb, which she can’t use if she is trying to sustain with her healing orb. Both orbs can be avoided by moving away and can also be reflected by Genji so that they assist you instead.
If you have issues with Moira, try guiding the fight away from her balls if you cannot deflect them. Also, remember, without her healing orb, you’re damage will out pace her sustain.
The beams provide some counterplay but they do not oppress Genji nor do they subsume his strengths. He is still deadly and has other defensive tech to make up for deflect being countered. There are also mechanics for Symmetra and Echo that are themselves countered by Deflect as well.
Cassidy is a stupid name but having McCree still isn’t good. No point honouring that git. No point letting Blizzard hide their pervy past either, hence why its Cole “Consent” Cassidy.
He still benefits greatly from the double-jump and the head hitbox tumble. We’re still wondering through whataboutisms here though, as while he does suffer from float or janky wall collision, it doesn’t take away from how mobile and deadly he is.
He’s not unwieldy and is incredibly effective at his work, even if Echo is desperately trying to play keep away. If she’s that far up, she can’t contest any objectives.
But it does, dude. It does. Everyone has been getting changes. Everyone adapts. Changes are not meant to make a character awful, its meant to change their power levels. That changes how they play. You don’t kill people in 3 seconds, but 5. You adapt your personal skill usage so that it works for those extra seconds.
You’re not complaining about having to adapt when Ana was released or now that Brigitte lost her stun. Sombra is also getting nerfed and you’ll adapt positively to that even with your own nerfs.
Well, Nanoblade and even naked Blade are both very powerful. You can’t try and excuse it because of a whataboutism.
Genji becomes a one man murder machine. He isn’t technically comboing with anyone, even with Nano as its Genji who did all the work. If he uses at the wrong time and gets one shot, that’s on the player. You can’t then say the hero is balanced because some player was an idiot.
It’s like Reaper running straight down the line towards the enemy Ana trying to kill her. Reaper is very strong, but that’s not gonna do him any good in that situation.
Because its a case of whataboutism; trying to excuse one bad thing by pointing out another. All the mentioned heroes are an issue. I never said they had much worse issues, I said they are also controversial at the moment. Everyone suffers under Zarya. Everyone suffers under Sombra. Everyone suffers under Genji.
Genji is part of that group and they are all being nerfed.
Zarya’s bubble is a pain for every hero. That doesn’t stop Genji from being a pain to fight for every non-Zarya.
Silences are almost as bad as Snipers. It stops the fun in such a galling way, but still its everyone who is suffering from that. Sombra is one type of pain, Genji is another.
Cassidy has to aim his E, even if there’s some tracking from the grenade as it flies. He’s still controversial for the damage it causes which in itself is an issue. It doesn’t help Genji’s case when the only “counters” are also borderline broken.
You could also say that Cassidy has to aim with his single-shot revolver. The fact that it only has 6 shots. He has limited mobility or mitigation and needs game sense to be able to use his rolls and other skills effectively.
The irony is that Genji has a greater advantage on the effort balance. He has more tools at his disposable and advantages to abuse. Its easier for him to kill you over you to kill him. Doesn’t mean he is unkillable. Just that he takes less effort to put you in the ground compared to you avoiding such a fate.
I’ve discussed Moira above but;
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Genji deals 98.96 damage per second. Which still leaves him 24.96 dps ahead of Moira when you factor in her healing.
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Genjis dash deals damage and is quicker. Its a great escape tool that has much greater vertical availability. Also, I can assure you that a Reinhardt can still squash you as Moira if you try and fade out of danger…
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I will mention the orbs. They can be reflected. She has to choose between healing or DPS. If she chooses healing, she can’t kill you. If she chooses DPS, you can move away. Both orbs do not follow you. Move the fight away.
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If the excuse is that Moira takes too much effort cos she just runs away then that’s still Genji making it too hard for someone to fight him. If healers could be slaughtered during their burst heals then that’d be unfair. Those heals don’t last forever though, and again Moira’s can be countered by positioning or reflect.
“Almost”. So it is still true. The dash can still get him away from the beams fairly well.
Still doesn’t affect his speed, mobility or his threat. Echo has to get him below 50% first. She also has to get close enough to use the beam on him and keep him in the targeting reticle.
Flying is another topic in itself but it also means that Genji is not being contested. Is his counter to really just hide away from him? Don’t engage?
And yet here we are. I assume that the entire community just doesn’t like how thin supports are and that’s why they are not playing them?
The threat level that Genji has to a support vs what that support has towards Genji is very much in Genji’s favour. You’re trying to kill a very skinny, high damage ninja with a tumble headbox.
All the mentioned supports do not have perpetual techs that keep Genji away. They don’t last forever. Genji is a constant threat on the other hand.
Also, a Genji trying to hit a Zenyatta is easier than a Zenyatta trying to pin a mobile Genji.
Tanks are meant to take effort to be killed and need to be a threat themselves to be remotely relevant.
Bastion has a larger hitbox and can easily be shot down when he pokes out to shoot his turret form.
Genji just takes longer to kill him. We’re not setting a 3 second limit here.
Torb is definitely strong in metal ranks but that doesn’t stop Genji from being overpowered and unbearable to deal with. Players at all ranks are complaing about Genji.
And perhaps that is why the Blade is not being touched this cycle? Its still massively powerful - the fact you can go and find targets not in the immediate area still needs to be respected. Its still a lot of damage from a little hard-to-track murderfly.
People are complaining about the effort imbalance when playing Genji. Genji Mains are complaining that they need to bother themselves more for slightly longer. There’s a difference there.
Learning to adapt for 2 more seconds vs bending over backwards and stressing out as the Genji casually waltses in would not be a positive comparison.
5 Likes
while I can agree with statistics, there’s heroes that take way less effort than Genji that are just as useful if not as useful imo.
People who don’t play Genji saying they’re good after 1 good match vs trashy enemies are also so annoying. Sure Genji’s kit itself isn’t the hardest to understand, but to properly be able to use it in the right situations and the practice needed to completely obliterate isn’t just basic playing. That took a lot of time to properly practice for many people.
The 3 most played DPS in the top ranks that I saw are Sojourn for basically 100%, Genji for 60-70% but going down and Tracer for like 40% of the matches as well. Sombra also appears in the mix and Widow for some reason as well.
isn’t this also a fact for Reaper and Pharah tho? Since the ult happens where they are standing/ end up using it?
He’s a flanker, the assassin role in MOBAs. It’s literally his job to kill squishies and healers take top priority in his task list.
I know that you mention whataboutism a lot but we use that to compare it to other heroes. That’s what you do when u saying Genji is stronger compared to others. We’re literally just comparing his strengths and expansiveness of his abilities/kit to those of other heroes.