I said 90% for a reason. There are of course a handful of exceptions.
But my point is the vast majority of Res’s would not be effected in the slightest.
It’s like the “can’t ult in spawn” change. Did it do nothing? No, but for the most part the change went unnoticed and we were still seeing the exact same problems.
And what is suddenly wrong with almighty Pulse Bomb?
Well not exactly. If hiding wasnt your main way of playing, like most of us apparently, then you would be pretty much fine with this since the playstyle doesnt change. However it does in fact force mercy to stay close to her team otherwise she is just throwing the match.
I can agree with this.
While I want to agree here, many of the healers don’t have “burst impact” except for Brigitte. At least, not in the way I imagine “burst impact”.
What? Valkyrie and E res?
I played the game since the time in which Ranked wasn’t even in the game and i can count on one hand how many times the opposing Mercy player used hide&res, i also never saw it succeed.
So i wouldn’t say that, as far as i know that’s a forced and unrealistic fact.
Los checks for old res.
Looks like somebody didnt read the post. I said “wasnt” meaning we didnt use it. Thats all I see being said here too.
Okay that’s reasonable and true.
Oh… sorry…i may need a break from the forum…
But my point is no, it hardly even changes that.
There are only a few places where you can both effectively hide and still be within range of your team.
For example, the most popular subject when people mention “hide and Res” is when the Mercy literally just hides in spawn and then GA’s out to the point after her team dies. LoS would not fix this at all, you would still get Mercy’s running away for cover and those Mercy’s would still just GA back. You don’t have to “play closer” when her mobility literally lets you cover 30 meters in 1.5 seconds and have 10 seconds to get to the bodies.
Not exactly. She doesn’t need buffs or nerfs but Mercy is all but fine as she is. Numbers are talking once more against her current design and she keeps contradicting herself. She is a mobile support who immobilizes herself, an altruistic character who must be played selfishly, a support with an E ability more powerful than her ult, which has a great voice line but doesn’t fit at all (valk saves nothing), and a supposedly engaging character who must disengage all the time both with her E and Q, and in the case of her rez, she must stop doing her job. Nothing of this happened before. She is in the worst design she has ever been. Both her Q and her E’s mechanic were removed from the game for good even before game’s release.
She needs a new rework for her own good and for the game’s. Until that, she will be unbalanceable and will have such huge pickrates, because she is very easy to play, free to master and she is good for every situations.
Sadly, that won’t happen at all unless they switch rez to her ult again. It’s too simple. Mercy has too much of her identity and set around rez. Sprays, potgs, poses, lore and even real statues. All around rez. NOTHING around valkirie (excepting a single icon). Removing rez would be as stupid as removing the Frostmourne from the Lich King, and Blizz knows that. They said that rez will always be part of her kit, so please, remove the remove idea and start thinking of how Mercy could work with some type of rez in her kit. Personally, I suggest you to think about how to balance it as her ult again, because it’s clear that as an E ability is bad design.
As an E ability, of course it’s impossible. As an ultimate, it was too easy. In fact, without an E ability she was easily underpowered in comparison with other supports until the dive meta came. You know, that meta where Genji, Tracer and Winston were everywhere and Ana, the only other main support, became useless because she needed to aim those mosquitos (and the stupid monkey).
In addition, rezzing people with less health has been discussed and it would have a couple of great problems. First, some characters wouldn’t survive after a rez (Tracer and almost every average character, 75-100 hps can be lowered to 0 too easily, there are a lot of damage inputs around 80 hps). Second, Mercy would be allowed then to use her rez only to feed her ult, so she would become an ult bot, something that Blizz and surely no one wants.
False. Mercy has been nerfed way more than Ana, and she still is way better. The only way that could be true would be making Mercy completely useless, and that’s not how you balance a game. Ana needs buffs, and Mercy needs a rework because this current design is by nature too strong. E rez is too strong and unbalanceable, and valk makes her too easy to play and master.
Rez won’t be taken away. No one likes it as an E ability, but rez is 1/3 of Mercy’s identity and 100% her signature in the game next to its voice line (which can’t fit with valk). Blizz knows how important rez is for her, so I don’t think they’ll remove it. However, yeah, Mercy needs another E ability. Rez is an ultimate in golden letters, and valkirie is just an ez mode for dummies. Maybe it could work as her E ability, but as an ultimate it doesn’t work.
Huge problem there. It would encourage/reward suicidal gameplay. Also, reducing the rezzed one’s health to a percentage would make that ability useless with the vast majority of characters. That would create more frustration than enjoyment, tbh.
When a character is extremely good for every single comp and even being supposedly balanced, the problem goes beyond there. It’s not a matter of balance. It’s a matter of her design. Mercy now is two bad designs from her past (both removed before game’s release for good and replaced by original mass rez and instant mass rez) . Doing the same mistakes over and over expecting different results is not wise, is insane. I don’t have a clue who thought this rework was a good idea, but it was doomed to fail from the beginning.
Here is a great problem. People believed that all Mercy’s power lied on her rez, and that was false. Mercy was way better when played engaging, keeping everyone alive and using tempo rez when needed. Playing her that way, huge rezzes were extremely uncommon. However, when they gave her E rez, they forced her to tempo rez, which was the best way to play her because you didn’t waste any bit of her potential. They also gave her more healing power, and that’s a great problem because Mercy is the only main support capable of solo heal her team. Now it’s too easy to press a button and solo heal your team, you don’t need any skill for that.
So the results were tempo rez being mandatory and given, never earned, and being on a cd, it encouraged the Mercy to use it the most she could, instead of trying to save it for a real emergency. They nerfed her over and over, but they only achieved to force Mercy to disengage and search a place to hide or die, and removing every single reason for Mercy to engage with her ult. Now she must hide, and with valkirie allowing her to fly, she can just hide behind a corner or fly out of everyone’s range, so she must disengage. Finally, she is easier than ever before. In the end, this rework only wrecked a character who was fine, excepting a disgusting SR exploit.
She only needed QoL changes. Now she needs an entire rework for her E and Q. Her basics are fine, but she never needed an aoe effect. That’s only an ez mode.
Don’t know about specifically her low elo’s pickrate, but her average pickrate during seasons 2 and 3 were between 5 and 0%, and that’s incredibly bad, considering that Lucio and Ana were around 85% and Pharah was in her highest pickrates since forever.
I’ll tell you an unpopular truth about this rework. Valkirie existed during game’s development and it got proved as such a bad design that Blizz had to completely remove it and replace by something better and healthier: original mass rez. Then, they saw that having great restrictions to Mercy’s rez (huge cast time and huge slow down) was bad design too, as she died all the time, so they had to rework it and make it instant.
So now we have this:
Bring back valkirie + E rez again with huge slow down and huge cast time + accidentally changing GA =/= revert
No one has officially called this rework a revert, so now, I ask you why:
Bring back mass rez with a lot of changes + New E ability + keeping GA changes = revert???
Sorry, but this doesn’t make sense. Bringing back mass rez will be a revert ONLY if it comes as it was, and I think that people are suggesting changes to it. People should stop generalizing about what a revert means. Not blaming you, but I’m seeing many people who does so.
No, they aren’t. The wider Ovewatch community thinks she is not fine because she is wheter almost mandatory again or bad design or even both.
And design changes happen when a design is showed as bad, which is the case now, as it got proved even before game’s release. You should accept that bad designs from the past should never have returned for the game because they only wreck it more, as all the months of mandatory Mercy have proved.
This argument is the same crap as the #boycottMercy thing. Do you really think that someone is going to obey you? Are you that naive?
Oh, and you talk about lack of mechanical skill. Funny, because people is complaining about Mercy having a great lack of mechanical skill now as a character.
Please, this is a feedback forum, so give valid suggestions about how to fix Mercy and stop calling people to shut up just because of your personal likes. By now I’ll tell you why current Mercy is not fine:
1- She has an E ability MORE POWERFUL than her ultimate.
2- She is a MOBILE support that IMMOBILIZES HERSELF.
3- She has an ult voice line which means “I’ll save you!” but she can only save herself.
4- She MUST HIDE AND/OR DISENGAGE both for her E and Q.
5- NO ONE calls for valkirie to be used but EVERYONE calls for rez to be used even if you have it on cd.
6- Her valkirie only works as an ez mode for dummies, allowing her to make up her LACK OF MECHANICAL SKILL, because she can replicate its effects just gitting gud with her basics.
7- Even being “fine and balanced” her pickrate has skyrocketed until almost 100% once more.
8- Rez works forgive now stupid mistakes, rewarding worse play instead of better play.
9- Rez is by far the most restricted ability in the game, with some restrictions that only work for it, with the longest cooldown by far.
10- Valkirie is supposed to enhance all Mercy’s kit but it doesn’t fit with its own description as it doesn’t enhance Mercy’s kit, only extends it or even leave it as it is (rez).
11- E rez causes Mercy to die a lot while using her rez, the same as when she had original mass rez with huge slow down and huge cast time. Funny thing we have this again when it got removed for good because it was bad design.
12- Valkirie removes all skill requirement from Mercy and it’s extremely boring because it does all the work for you without offering anything new and impactful (yes, she can boost her team but then, better be sure that they are going to win anyway because they will be one main support down; also, that’s not new, that’s redundant).
13- She has the lowest plame rate by far, 1/3 of the next one in the bottom list (Winston).
14- A great amount of people playing her dislike her or feel incredibly arkward while playing her, but she is almost needed once more.
15- Current rez encourages primadonnas (toxicity).
16- People gets usually annoyed when Mercy receives potg because she is not doing anything really great, usually it even feels like stealing an ally’s well deserved potg.
17- And the list goes on.
Sorry, Cookie, but you are not the wider community. If you look a bit the forum, you will see how many people think that Mercy needs changes, wheter if that means buffs, nerfs, or reworks. This rework is THE WORST REWORK EVER and it needs to die once and for all. Imo, it needs a new rework because it’s based on two bad designs from the past and that was never a good base for anything.
You need zero sense about when to use your unengaging amp it up ability (yeah, I’m talking about valkirie). For rez you had to learn an army of things because you couldn’t use it always, so you had to learn about when to use it. Knowing when to use valk is just have it? Press it. Are you bad at her? Okay, now you’ll feel like a pro. Just go hide behind a corner and solo heal your team. A good Mercy NEVER needs valkirie unless she is going to die.
Do you want to heal? Learn to prioritize your main beam. Mercy can solo heal her team without an ez mode.
Do you want to boost? Okay, this can be useful, but then realise that your team is 1 main support down, so better be sure that they have great advantage anyway. Oh, wait, this means valkirie is not necessary for the victory here…
Do you want to shoot? If your enemy can see you, you can see it, so you don’t need to fly. Also, do you really need infinite ammo? Are you that bad at aiming?
Do you want to be dynamic? Learn to use GA properly.
Do you want to cheat death? Okay, this is useful, but how incredible valk is then when it has only a single use that can’t be reduced to “unnecessary” or “ez mode”.
The rework was completely unnecessary. Yes, Mercy needed changes, but she never needed a necromancer rework bringing back from the dead her two worst designs (both Q and E’s mechanic were removed for good even before game’s release). Every hero is very unfun to play against, and mass rez was one of the only 3 ults with team saving potential in the game. How many ults have team wipe potential? Let’s see… Death bloosom, rocket barrage, dragon arrow, gravity bomb, dragon blade (and reflect, because it can turn ults against the enemy team, and that’s an ability!!!), dead eye, explosive mech, earthshatter (can’t kill it, but it sets the enemy team for a wipe), rip tire, and the list goes on.
So, your problem was countering rez? Okay, you could just have learnt how to play around it as the highest ranks did, but anyway, people are suggesting ways to give mass rez easy counter while giving her an E ability she needed.
Rez won’t be removed, Blizz stated that it will always be part of her kit and if you see her ser of sprays, potgs, poses, lore and even real statues, it’s the same possible as watching the Lich King without his Frosmourne and a spear instead of it. The only way they could remove rez would be removing it as an E ability and placing it again as her ult. Valkirie is awful as an ultimate, and no one calls you to use it. It’s a mistake from the past and it should never have returned. It was better buried and dead. The only way I could accept valkirie would be if it was single target, never aoe, that’s what makes it an ez mode.
As an E ability valk could work. It fits more there than as her ult, and the same goes for rez. It fits more as her ult than as her E ability.
Non-Mercy mains who are complaining too because she is wheter bad design or almost mandatory. Yeah, they are a majority.
It is indeed. It was 1/3 of her identity and her signature as well next to “Heroes never die” which doesn’t fit at all with valkirie and doubt it will eventually fit. Turning an ultimate into an E ability was a terrible mistake from the beginning and they should realise that once and for all. E rez won’t work, no matter what they’ll do. It can’t be balanced and fit with Mercy at the same time. Valkirie is bad design too, as it got proved during game’s development. Mercy needs a new rework with rez as her ult again (but changed) and a new E ability that keeps her game style fluid.
It would change it a lot. Original mass rez had similar restrictions to current rez and it got removed before game’s release because it was bad design. In order to make mass rez good design but giving it some counterplay, it would need some tweaks, as it needed from the beginning. Giving her a new ability would be the perfect excuse for mass rez’s nerfs.
That’s a lie. Current rez is given by cooldown. You don’t have to work at all for it. Also, people want you to use it as most as you can, but you must play selfish, ignoring taking no risks, disengaging, sneaking around and hiding for a single rez.
What? Having rez as an ult forced the Mercy to think about when to use it instead of just hitting that button as it happened after the rework. Now it’s almost the same, but you must play hide and seek for every single rez. There is no real challenge or thought behind it. In fact, making rez an E ability was what broke Mercy because it made too easy to undo mistakes. Countering some deaths once in a while was way better than undoing a mistake each 30 seconds.
The same as almost every single ultimate in this game, and a lot of abilities like deflect and current rez, which is horrible to play as, with and against. No one likes it and it contradicts the character. It’s cancer for her.
Edited your post. Now it’s more accurated.
I’m not buying anything from Blizz neither. I would like to switch one of my characters race in WoW, but I’m afraid that I need to see a good move from this team before… I’m buying my playtime in that game with the game’s gold.
As I did with many others, I suggest you to tell me if none of these changes nor a combination, would kill hide and rez (not talking about if they would be good or balanced, they are just examples):
1- LoS (no rez through walls)
2- Little cast time (1-1,5 seconds, the time she takes with her voice line which can’t fit with valkirie)
3- SR fix (as even some pros said, hide and rez existed because SR system rewarded it, so no reward, no climbing, no hide and rez)
4- Decay system with a high cap to avoid both hide and rez and hide until rez is gone (so if you play engaging you’ll have your rez when you need it, but if you are hiding and waiting your team to die, you will have to deal with a 1 vs 6 for that huge rez).
TLDR (at last): Jeez, I hate when the mods merge here tons of posts during a single night…
Well then that means 2cp map spawns need a rework like horizon spawn B
It’s easy: just make exit with wall in front of it, so Mercy can’t GA straight to objective.
No its easier actually. Make it longer to get to the point like the new Horizon.
Well that already tosses your first assertion out the window, let alone from the fact you have not provided a source for this “wider Overwatch community”'s opinion. I have many friends who are not Mercy players, hate playing Mercy, and have always hated playing Mercy, who just so happen to hate every post-rework version of Mercy more than any pre-rework version.
No, it isn’t hyperbole.
I disagree. Mercy was not in an oppressive state prior to her rework. Ana’s pickrate surpassed her in higher ranks, and Ana was considered garbage tier due to dive at the time.
Since then, Ana, who is probably in the worst balance state out of all healers, has received several buffs. They were minor and insignificant compared to what she needs, but they were buffs nonetheless. Also since then, we have had two other very powerful healers released.
Considering that Mercy was objectively worse than Ana prior to her rework (as shown by her pickrates in high ranks and in the pro scene at the time), Mercy would need to be receive a net buff if reverted to keep up with the other healers.
oh my god this thread is all over the place
and the fact that the autoscroll is incredibly broken doesn’t help at all
I hate trying to scroll up…
“Let’s scroll up nice and slowly so I can read the above posts…”
Pushes the scroll mouse button one click.
Moves up 250 posts.
Oh lord I thought it was just my phone. Im so annoyed by this.
I wasn’t aware of this until now, pretty interesting if true!
Perhaps revert is too loaded of a term. What I’m saying is that changes, once made, are unlikely to be undone. Even subsequent changes that look to accomplish something which an earlier state already did… aside from Soldier’s primary fire damage adjustment being ever so slightly reeled in, I’m not aware of any.
When DVA was given more HP and became “too tanky” they converted more of her armor to regular HP rather than taking away some of the added normal HP. That’s the sort of thing I mean when I say I don’t think we’ll see a “revert”.
Maybe we’ll see some way to chain rez in such a fashion as to still revive multiple teammates or something but I doubt we’re ever going back to the way it worked before.
I really like your point about keeping her play fluid. She’s definitely lacking that element to her kit compared to earlier versions. I really wish we could have her be both balanced and fun.
Can confirm this absolutely, i’ve played too since the second week out of beta and absolutely never seen it happening in-game. And i’m one that always looks at the enemy Mercy if there’s one because i like to compete with them a lot!