[Feedback Thread Continued] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018


#4682

How is it bad ? I feel it gives more skillceil to Mercy.
I have never though about using Mercy’s ult to protect myself with the invulnerability, but I’ve seen some montages (actually the “Farewell Resurect” videos) where Mercy uses her rez to get 1-2 allies and to dodge a Reinhardt kd and I think it’s very well played from the Mercy player.
But I understand how unfair it can feel for the Reinhardt so I would understand if they get rid of invulnerability.


#4683

I never really played mercy seriously until after the changes. I think i may main her now. She feels like she does what she is suppose to now, imo. She heals. I couldn’t stand the don’t heal / huge rez bot play style. I am enjoying her more now than ever.


#4684

If someone told you that… then they are playing her wrong…

I’m sorry but there is nothing that dictates Mercy should stop healing.

If you want to climb with her… Then yes that is something you should do… but there is nothing changing the fact that you must hide and res now if you want to survive the process of Resurrection.


#4685

Alright here goes enjoy:

Old mercy comparison vs team ults
(Brackets indicate positive points earned for utility)

1.- Graviton:
Mercy: Stay at a safe distance to bait the solo grav or rezz the team. (1)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
2.- Dragonblade:
Mercy: Juke by flying to teammates (needs prediction) or stay in a very safe place where he can’t reach you. Rezz teammates who died. (0.5)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
3. Riptire:
Mercy: Stay in a safe zone to solo bait the tire or rezz the team. (1)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
4: Self destruct:
Mercy: Stay in a safe area or behind a shield to rezz the team. (1)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
5: Dead Eye:
Mercy: Safe area (LOS or shield) rezz teammates who got caught. (1)
Zen: Can discord longrange burst the cree. (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
6Death Blossom:
Mercy: Stay in a safe area to rezz the team. (1)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
7Tactical Visor:
Mercy: Safe area (LOS or shield) rezz teammates who got caught. (1)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
8EMP
Mercy: Hacked mercy can’t rezz or fly away sry mate (0)
Zen: Transcendence if you can time it before the EMP (0.5)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
9. Pulse bomb
Mercy: Nope (0)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
10. Justice from above
Mercy: Rezz (1)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (0.5)

Basic Kit comparison:
Mercy: Healing (1), Damage contribution (1), Survivability (0.5)
Zen: Healing (0.5), Damage contribution (2), Survivability (0.5)
Lucio: Healing (0.5), Damage contribution (1), Survivability (1), Engage/Disengage (1)

Points

Mercy: 10
Zen: 9.5
Lucio: 9


New mercy comparison vs team ults
(Brackets indicate positive points earned for utility)

1.- Graviton:
Mercy: Facecheck the skybox and do so little healing that ppl still die (0)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
2.- Dragonblade:
Mercy: Counter by ulting to fly away from him. His ult still burts down teammates through your ult. (0.5)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
3. Riptire:
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
4: Self destruct:
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
5: Dead Eye:
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Can discord longrange burst the cree. (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
6.Death Blossom:
Mercy: Valkyrie (0.5)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
7. Tactical Visor:
Mercy: Valkyrie (0.5)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
8. EMP
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Transcendence if you can time it before the EMP (0.5)
Lucio: Beat drop (0)
9. Pulse bomb
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Transcendence (0)
Lucio: Beat drop (1)
10. Justice from above
Mercy: Valkyrie (0)
Zen: Transcendence (1)
Lucio: Beat drop (0.5)

Basic Kit comparison:
Mercy: Healing (1), Damage contribution (1), Survivability (0.5)
Zen: Healing (0.5), Damage contribution (2), Survivability (0.5)
Lucio: Healing (0.5), Damage contribution (1), Survivability (1), Engage/Disengage (1)

Points

Mercy: 4
Zen: 9.5
Lucio: 9


Sidenote: Mercy does not get extra points for her current rezz ability because it is so situational and dangerous you can’t even factor it in as something that is always going to get value and half the time it will put your team at a disadvantage (lack of heals and possibly her own death).

Conclusion: Zen and lucio are both really good in terms of ult economy both in the bast years and currently.
Mercy on the other hand has lost all her ult value when confronted with enemy ults.

TL:DR Mercy’s ult is only viable nowadays if you are NOT getting counter ulted. So what is her ult good for? You could say engages. Sure but as soon as an enemy pops just one of the listed ults you are on the losing side. 1 ult vs 1 ult mercy will always be on the losing side.

Note: All the point contributions have been made on my personal opinion / experience across 800 hours on mercy, 190 hours on Zen, 100 hours on lucio.
Sidenote: I have not included all supports since it would take me too long and I’m lazy so I nitpicked the ult economy / counter healers.
2nd Sidenote: Sure Ana nade can counter Zen. In the current iteration of the game both Zen and Mercy will earn (0) respectively when against her. Whilst lucio might get (0.5) or (1) since her nade doesn’t stop shields.


#4686

It allowed to use resurrect in aggressive way. My favorite was resurrecting 2 allies and using that invulnerability to kill ulting Soldier:76. Unfair aspect was full immunity to CC at the same time: Mercy could walk out of graviton surge.


#4687

Not sure if this was posted here… but here are the stats as of Day One of Season 9 until Monday March 5th 2018.

So Overbuff isn’t that far off on the weekly basis at the moment but you have to bare in mind the Weekly is passed off the last 7 days and not from day 1 of Competitive and Monthly is last 30 days and not from day 1 of that seasons competitive…

But Mercy is largely put in place so there is a unlikelihood she will be altered.


#4688

Feel free to give feedback and reasoning


#4689

I’m not entirely sure either of us understand the complex pay structures surrounding each one of the overwatch league teams. If you do, please be more specific. My understanding was that each of the teams has its own revenue and pays its players from its own profits, shared from each game. To suggest that Blizzard pays overwatch league players to further its own agendas AGAINST the playerbase which pays THEM is a level of conspiracy theory that is only typical of the internet.


#4690

Sounds to me like you have an issue with the “die on point” instruction that as only been explained a million times over already.


#4691

But then as a smart dps player, I realize I can’t, so my only option is hope he dies fast.


#4692

They can’t. And so we haven’t got a single reply from dev team here.

Because except admitting failure, there is nothig to say - everything other will make them look ignorant or plain dumb.

Guess we have to wait untill they solve this puzzle out… :expressionless:.


#4693

The pay structure is similar to what you would get with real life Sports teams.

The Teams themselves are sponsored… and when they enter the tournament… if they win, not only do they get recorded down as the winners, they also get a prize pool.

For example… London Spitfire is owned by Jack Etienne who is the founder and CEO of Cloud9, so part of Cloud9’s funds would go into London Spitfire to start them up.

Social Media such as YouTube and Twitch would create venue for income then next would be doing interviews that may or may not be paid and then they would get sponsorship.

For example Cloud9 is sponsored by these companies:

Cloud9 Sponsorship
  • Loot Crate
  • Logitech
  • HTC
  • G2A
  • iBUYPOWER
  • ZOWIE
  • MSI
  • Intel
  • HyperX
  • Nvidia
  • Red Bull
  • LolClass
  • NEEDforSEAT USA
  • HK Army
  • Replay HUD
  • LoLwiz

London Spitfire is sponsored by Logitech G and whilst not on the team, Stylosa a.k.a Unit Lost is promoting them, he may or may not be paid to do so but his contribution would help with getting the team noticed and at the moment the team has a total earning of $100,000

The players themselves would have a earning through their own media channels, through streaming and sponsorship. Example Stylosa who is captain of the UK team is sponsored by Hyper X…

Bit off topic… but Linus Tech Tips did a pretty detailed break down of how his Tech review Channel makes their earnings for his company… likewise special effects artist FreddieW makes his earnings through merchandise, short videos and sponsorship… and made his own production company.


#4694

None. Most people don’t have the memory to go back to before August when the Mercy rework details finally came out. They don’t remeber that at the higher tiers Mercy was nearly non-existent except for the people abusing her badly tuned SR rewards and some very few select Mercy mains.

The don’t remeber that high mechanical heros were being shelved for Mercy at lower tiers because of a lack of choices for a main healer that didn’t have high mechanical requirements (Ana) and was why she littered the low tier games. They don’t remeber that the majority of why she was used was simply player limitations or because people WANTED to play her. She may have been frustrating to play against if you didn’t know how to play properly, but she was overall in a very healthy place compared to now.


#4695

You mean, OBTAINING RES? Like, AN ULT?
Yeah, i thought so.


#4696

Alright.
A lot of people still seems to think Mercy 1.0 gameplay was only about “hide and rez” so I’m going to explain you how I see the game (and every other game aswell) because in my opinion it is so logical I can’t even imagine how to not understand this concept.

Let’s talk about resources.
Every skill represents a resource. Overwatch is about using the resource you have in order to force your oponent to run out of their own resources so that you can win a fight, and then, the match.
There are different types of resources:

  • Free to use (basically every left click/right click/passive and every ability that does not have any cooldwon)

  • Cooldown based

  • Ultimates

In general case Free to use < Cooldown based < Ultimates in terms of power and value you can get from it.

The whole point is trying to use the least resource possible to get the best benefits from it. Starting from there, your objective is to trade some of your resources against your oponents resources. Using a single resource to cancel what your ennemy does with 2 or more resources is a trade in your favor (actually it is a bit more complex because every resource does not have the same value, but we can still say using a not very powerful resource to counter a much powerful resource is a trade in your favor).

People are saying: “it is powerful/broken to deliberately let your teammates die then resurect them” which we can rephrase into “it is a trade in your favor to not use your hero’s free to use resources before using your ultimate resource”

Let’s examinate the 2 possibilities (sorry this might be long)

1. You are not using your free to use resources before using your ultimate

If you do not use your “free to use” resources (which is an unlimited source of resource) then you are not forcing your ennemy to use theirs to counter it.

Simple example: You are not healing Reinhardt who is fighting in a 1v1 against Winston. Assuming Winston is only left-clicking, Reinhardt suffers 60 dps.

2. You are using your free to use resources before using your ultimate

You are spending your unlimited type of resource which is forcing the ennemy to use more resources to get an advantage over you.

Again, same example: Reinhardt vs Winston.
Winson’s left click is completly canceled by your healing, meaning he will 100% loose this fight if he doesn’t use any other resource. => You are forcing him to use something if he doesn’t want to die.

Then, refusing to heal your teammates before resurecting is a bad way to play.
It will be easier for your oponents to win the fight than if you were healing meaning they might not be forced to use their ultimates. Ultimates they have saved as a resource to counter your ultimate resource when you will use it.

Here’s a quick example of a teamfight thinking about resources:
Both teams have charged up all their ultimates. The fight is going to engage.
Assuming free to use resources from team A perfectly counters free to use resources from team B. Same for cooldown based.

1. Mercy from team A decides to go for hiding and wait until her team dies.
Team A is left 5v6 and their free to use + cooldown based resources no longer perfectly cancels the ones of team B.
The fight ends up by team A loosing the fight after using 4 ult vs team B using only 3 ults (noone died from team B).
Mercy comes and uses her ultimate to reset a new fight and now team A has 1 ultimate left, against 3 for team B. Now free to use + cooldown based resources are equal for both teams.
Who wins ?

2. Mercy from team A decides to take part to the fight.
As free to use resources + cooldown based perfectly cancels itselves, the outcome of the fight will depend on how each team uses their ultimates.
Victory is possible for both teams.

People saying “hide and rez” is broken are basically saying team B uses 6 ults to win the fight against only 5 people. But in fact their regular abilities are enough to get an advantage over team A. And when team A uses their ults to try to change the issue of the fight in their favor, team B only has to use as much ultimates as team A did to counter it.

[Sorry for the huge post, I wanted to be as clear as possible so I detailled everything.]

TL; DR
"Hide and rez" strategy is only viable against poor teamworking, as mentionned a billion times.

#Revert Mercy


Devs ignoring Mercy Feedback
[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018
[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018
[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018
Is Mass Rezz coming back or not?
Playing Mercy ruins the Overwatch experience
[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018
The Megathread has a point
[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018
Why was mass rez removed
What exactly is “Hide n Res”
#4697

It’s stupid that some people think Mercy shouldn’t hide. You hear a Junkrat tire are you going to stay in the middle of the map waiting to get killed? I would hide obviously with or without mass ressurect. Isn’t it obvious? Even in live I hide when I hear a McCree ultimate or another one, if someone dies I will ressurect. This is so obvious and still people think this hide and seek. Non sense


#4698

That doesn’t make any sense.

If you realize you can’t make it out alive then sure by all means try and get yourself killed. But that’s where Mercy had counterplay, teammates could even make Resurrect detrimental to use because it was very situational based and had ALOT of different things you needed to take into account when holding such power. Making it a little bit harder to execute would’ve increased the skill ceiling between all tiers of play something that is lacking with the current Live version of Mercy.


#4699

You can quote a very small part of any post, and people can expand the quote anytime they want to read the full post. This is very useful to point out key stuff while not cutting context.

For instance, I think the post you want to point out is this one:


#4700

Yeah, they are referring to MY idea. I shouldn’t have to repeat myself over and over again with how I would’ve liked to change Mass Resurrect. But yeah the post that they are referring too is the one that I posted just for the FYI! :slight_smile:


#4701

With LOS requirement AND cast time maybe it would have been fine?
But it was kind of annoying to use already, and I like flying.