Lmao how did you get 15 likes on this terrible post
You’re 100% right.
No matter what is changed, things will always settle down to one meta or another. Some combination of abilities will just play out better than others.
I just wish there was a clean way to make it so all the roles (Thank you!) were attractive to play across the player base, so you all who play Comp or QP, didn’t have to suffer, because certain roles and characters just aren’t “fun”, or worth the effort to play, necessitating 2-2-2, etc.
Maybe hybrids are the issue? Maybe a tank’s job should just be managing absorbing damage in one form or another, taking space, and nothing else. DPS should be maximizing their damage in one form or another, and debuffing the enemy. And Supports should be maximizing their team somehow, and buffing their team. Make it so a team without one of these will have a very very difficult time succeeding, and make it so each of those roles is varied and interesting in their expression so people would like to play them.
Hey, it’s the holidays. I can wish. =P
DPS being over powered would make them the meta. They weren’t meta because they weren’t that good given that tanks and supports deal as much DPS as DPS along with other things.
Mei can burst down 200 with freeze? Hold up… how do you figure? Freezing takes SO long it would hardly be called burst. You can freeze a genji for a full second before he dashes and is out. Zarya as well. Hell, you can speed a full second in a half freezing, charge up a shot, and STILL miss the kill. Generally “burst damage” is agreed to be ‘from start to finish in a way that the other player can’t respond after the initial tag’ such a a flash bang fan. Because you remain stunned during the whole duration. Zen’s right click because there literally isn’t time to get hit, realize the problem and push a button before the rest hits you. Mei’s freeze doesn’t fit that.
Mei’s dying is dependent on her team supporting her? Does Moira need team support for her options? Not really. Does Lucio? Not so much. The point being that Mei’s self heal isn’t that good, and quite frankly it’s largely agreed that if you’re using it to heal… you’re doing it wrong. Does that sound like a good self heal to you? It’s more used as a stun avoider.
Moira’s orb and fade totally can be put together to self heal and avoid damage. Contesting points wasn’t the argument made either. It was that you said it was the best self heal, which it frankly isn’t. That would probably go to Roadhog.
Zarya’s 200 hp shield while not a self heal is still better than Mei’s, as it’s effectively adding 200 hp to her pool AND allows her to walk out during it.
And Orisa’s absolutely can. It removes freeze flat out. If you’re saying “Orisa can’t use her skill while slept or stunned.” as an argument… who CAN use their abilities while slept or stunned? The ‘weakness’ you’re trying to apply applies to literally everyone.
Zen’s does have a higher cost, but it was about the effective one shot potential. Maybe Zen can’t freeze, but Discord is well better than freeze. Freeze isn’t that good. It has been nerfed so hard that it is borderline useless. Have you seen the ammo cost on freeze? Since you’re arguing Zen’s right click cost being high as well as freeze being better.
If you don’t like it you don’t have to respond but just calling in nonsense because you don’t agree is simply being rude.
If you think the idea will not work you can discuss the reasoning and respond accordingly. But right now it just feels like you force hog to be only damage based and don’t agree to hear anything else.
It’s all a matter of opinion and calling my opinion nonsense will not change my mind and will not convice anyone otherwize… Just show you don’t agree with it, which is ok but then just say you think differently, no need to be rude.
You call him wet sponge with a damage output of 113.1 damage per second is just an insult. He has the potential being the 9th strongest hero in the game with tons of damage output overall, he’s not gonna be a wet noodle doing more damage than more than heroes especially with his high hp and healing.
The only thing this change effects is the he can no longer one shot forcing him to duel his pray a little or rely on his team.
ALL tanks do so and it’s really not a bad thing to go for.
They can easily make a dps version of hog that will work well too, but this design is not something bad, and Hammond pretty much proves it can work.
Fair enough. Either way, the fact he has parts of a tank don’t mean he’s all a tank.
Like with Support. Every support got healing,escape tool & utility.
Some other heroes have healing like Soldier:76, some other heroes have an escape tool like Reaper and some heroes might provide some utility like Widow’s infra sight. But it’s the combination of all with consistency that makes them a support.
So then nerf tank HP and armor and make them equal squishies. There needs to be a cost to having benefits, and DPS pay the cost in survival.
If tanks can’t deal with exchanging damage for survival, then just make em Dps. Support damage is fine, its already plenty low.
No. Wanna know why ?
Because overpowered DPS kill squishies too quickly.
Which class has the most squishies ?
DPS.
Overpowered DPS (especially if it’s burst) just counter themselves out of the game. That’s why we had GOATS, and later Double Shield, both metas with tools to keep burst damage in check and have a proper strategic game. Without that, it’s just which team’s Widow (or Hanzo at the time) gets the second pick first (since Mercy rezzes the first pick).
Freeze itself isn’t burst, but it’s part of a combo that allows Mei to burst an enemy down, much like Hook.
If you do, that’s a you problem. Freezing an enemy removes nearly half their health if they’re 200HP, then you have 1.3s to aim and shoot in nigh melee range…
Yes. Otherwise she just used a cd for nothing.
Lucio is the most independant healer and regularly flanks alone. Irrelevant.
Why limit its use so hard as to avoid abilities which can’t be predicted ?
You never go wrong using to heal. Even if you still die.
That’s all of Moira’s cooldowns.
By that logic, you can ice block, leave before it ends (be unpredictable) and immediately Ice Wall to be safe.
Believe it or not, a big wall is hard to go through to most heroes.
Contesting points is one of its uses, thus it has to be mentionned.
Just like tanking Self-Destruct with Take a Breather.
Can it be countered by BioNade ? Does it heal less than 2/3 of the user’s life ?
Yes, so it’s worse than Ice Block.
It doesn’t remove Freeze. It removes the slow. A slow she’ll most likely keep anyway as she slows down while firing…
You’re the one saying Orisa can cleanse CC.
Then why are you complaining about supports ?
The problem in that case is Mei herself, not Zen, not Mercy, not Baptiste.
dud stop trolling her utility was nerfed into the ground and her invincibility is a suicide button and her dps is 75 dmg or nothing each sec which is sick when you think some dps can do 300 during that time frame
and her hitbox is arguably bigger than it should be too
Irrelevant to the discussion.
A hero being overnerfed is a poor excuse to use to call supports’ damage OP.
Only if you’re isolated, which you shouldn’t as Mei.
It’s 75 per 0.8s. Not counting headshots.
The only heroes that come close are Reaper and Bastion. They both have massive spreads (while Mei is pinpoint) and Reaper also has little to no range (while Mei’s is map-wide).
Her hitbox is one of the smallest in the game. Only a handful of heroes have smaller hitboxes.
tanks, especially off tanks absolutely need damage.
Healing is plenty strong already even after all the nerfs.
Just look at tf2, heavy is a tank and he tanks through his big health and sheer threat of his minigun.
Trolls having no idea about mei’s big hitbox for just 50, (nonexistent) utility, dmg numbers and calling her cryofreeze best heal in the game when antinade exists
Delusional level is beyond high
Heavy doesn’t do anywhere near the damage that Demo, Sniper, Pyro, or Scout can do. TF2 is a bad example really for your position, as damage players definitely outdated tanks, but there is also no single character limit.
well, ow is a different game, mine was just an example of why tanks shouldn’t do low damage.
They still need to be a threat so that people don’t invade the space
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/flyh5u/hitboxes_of_overwatch_v2_with_echo/
Mei has the smallest critbox in surface, 6th smallest in volume.
Mei has the 3rd smallest body hitbox in surface, the 2nd smallest hitbox (head + body) in surface, the 3rd smallest hitbox (head + body) in volume.
She has a smaller hitbox than Tracer and Baby D.Va…
You can be a threat while not being an invincible blender. There HAS to be a survival to damage tradeoff.
This post hurts my brain. Maybe the author understand the DamagePerSecond differences one day.
It does when he is a pure threat tank. He is ALL tank.
It is not rude to call some ones opinion nonsense. Your opinion is not you. Your identity is not tied to your perspective on tanks.
It is in the context of a zero mobility, point blank range, cooldown reliant, huge target hero.
He can’t do more damage then other hero’s if he cannot consistently bring hero’s into his range and keep them there.
That is the entire issue. His shotgun only does good damage within a very small area around him. Thus why he needs burst. The window of opportunity to do damage for hog is quite small. Literally only when his opponent is next to him.
Otherwise defensives, mobilities, projected barriers, defense matrix, stuns, boops, and the list goes on defend the enemy from any additional follow up. Having a higher rate of fire with lower damage means that not only will he not confirm kills but he will just feed more.
Add on top that the nonsensical idea that 12m’s allows him in any sense of the word to peel for teammates and you have yourself a dead character.
Need peel? Zarya will be better. So will D.va, Winston, Orisa, and Wrecking Ball.
Essentially taking one of the things that Roadhog is the best at and stripping him of it.
Then why do we need anyone else like hammond? Why get rid of the only pure bruiser tank to make a objectively WORSE version of him?
And every tank has the ability to make space. The very thing you want to take away from roadhog for no explained reason beyond “I don’t think he should have this.”
You’ve done a miserable job of explaining any logical reason WHY he should not have offensive capability.
I am grateful that the dev’s have clearly stated they want more tanks like hog. Not less.
Well, it depends. In straigh-up duels, usually, a good heavy will win against a good scout or Demo. Pyro, it depends on the loadout. Sniper, the heavy usually loses, I’ll grant you that.
Heavy, you really need to hit him with a perfectly executed flank or sneak-attack to win.
Its just amazing to me that we seem to about once a month have this kind of post… from a DPS no less. If we take away damage, you have to replace it with sustain… do you really want that? And its always from people who want someone else to tank or heal them… yes, we are just props in your movie of life.
If I cant dps as tank and support I am not playing the game. Go away
Of our goal was to kill overwatch then I would love this idea. But sadly we want the game to be balanced, we want to actually have fun. We don’t want supports to be free kills, and we don’t want DPS to just walk up to tanks and kill them with no risk involved except for the other team’s DPS.
If you are good enough, you will be able to win against supports in a 1v1. And, if we replace Dmg with what, tanks will be free ult charge so how do we get rid of that. Sustain? That thing that enabled GOATS and other don’t die comps that the community hate? Nah, I’m fine!