What happens when your DPS can’t play hitscans and other team goes phara with a mercy pocket?
Only tank that can do anything at all is dva. She’s bad.
Supports: Ana and Bap.
If you remove such abilities, no point of playing anything other than DPS.
As for people not using abilities, noy using abilities properly won’t get you anywhere above plat.
Fair? I’ll tell you what’s not fair: Spending years at the bottom of the tankline, watching every other hero be meta. Finally my waiting has paid off, and no player that doesn’t know how to counter-switch is gonna mess it up for us now.
/joke
To summarize this whole thread…
“Me.Big.Strong.DPS.Do.Big.Damage”
“Tanks/Supports.Do.Small.Damage”
Tanks make space. What you are describing is HOLDING space. Have a bastion round a corner and try to intimidate a cqc rein to back up. He’ll be dead before he can say “boop”.
Same with Sym.
They hold space. He takes it. Stark difference.
This is entirely incorrect. What you are describing is BAD roadhog play. Anyone who exclusively uses it for offensive purposes is not a good roadhog. Same applies to if you are using it exclusively for defensive purposes.
A good roadhog does both based on what is needed. For instance, If a wrecking ball or doomfist are consistently diving my back line I will hold my hook for them. Same if I know a reaper has ult.
However, if I know the enemy is running a bastion I will specifically use my hook to pull him into my team in an offensive way.
Tell me, why shouldn’t he have offensive capability? What is wrong with that? In addition, how do you not realize you are throwing the baby out with the bath water by your proposed ideas?
How can a hog possibly peel well enough with such limited range (which is already limited in the first place) ? What does he offer at this point that a wrecking ball, winston, or d.va can do better?
Nothing.
All of which already have means to play outside his range, bait his hook, or only fear engaging him because he can kill them.
Reaper: This match up is currently balanced. But with reduced damage and hook range Roadhog would be entirely at his mercy with his only saving grace is if reaper is dumb enough to ult while roadhog remains alive.
Genji: Already a difficult target to hook due to high mobility but with reduced damage and range Genji cN just primary him at longer ranges and also blade teammates who are not hugging Roadhog.
Mei: she fears high burst. Guess what you are removing from him.
Tracer: she just got a 3m falloff buff and also already targets roadhog to feed her ult quickly.
Doomfist: Currently fears hog if he has his hook off cooldown due to the high damage specifically. Would just laugh at roadhog for hooking him now.
Roadhog: woopdie freaking doo. A trash hero can fight himself.
WB: fears high burst. Guess what you are removing from roadhog.
Winston: He uses his shield to engage with targets. Roadhog typically has to burst down that shield to even hope to hook him. Guess what the reduction in damage prevents him from doing? Not to mention the reduction in hook range does to his ability to peel his backline.
You should be seeing the pattern by now.
You’ve royally neutered him and stopped him being able to do his job.
He isn’t a better dps. Dps do not have moderate cooldowns, slow firing speeds, limited range, and low mobility all bundled into one character. Dps are able to far more frequently do damage and confirm kills.
Agreed. Let Roadhog be a bruiser/threat based tank. He is not designed to be a exclusively defensive based hero and even if he were your ideas neuter that job in equal measure to his offensive capabilities.
This would break Zarya, in the overpowered beyond belief sense.
If it was multiple independent bubbles, imagine Doom, Tracer, Genji, or Ball getting bubbled over and over again as they tear up the enemy team solo.
If it was multiple concurrent bubbles, the game would immediately turn into a dive meta with Zarya mirrors 100% of the time.
-A Zarya main
this is the issue tho, if healing and tanks go unchecked you have to have BIG STONG DAMAGE to overcome healing/tankiness zerg. otherwise what is the point of dps. in my opinion what should have happened is every role should have been more equal in all departments maybe exhibit a little more towards tankiness and healing. not all out zerg on either side
Soldier literally has 60hps with his biotic field which is more than mercy’s wdym
Mei is not a flat dps hero she’s an utility dps hero she sacrifices damage for self heal, constant cc and a wall
supports that deal high damage
usually have projectiles…
or make hitscan dps damage lower then projectile damage.
Well… Soldier 76 can.
Bastion, Torb and (potentially with many ability hits) Doomfist do.
Because it’s not that much damage.
That’s overly broad, Winston doesn’t need a damage nerf, Hammond’s damage is already very low.
No, it will be WAY more impactful for healers if Winston’s Damage is reduced to 51dps, now when healed by Mercy they will GAIN health vs Winston’s damage than if Roadhog did 127.5 damage per shot.
And while sometimes the damage should be reduced in other cases the damage should remain the same but the attack interval increased. The 0.15sec attack interval increase for Roadhog went well, it could be increased by another 0.15sec to a nice round 1.0sec between each shot.
Rein as well, if the damage isn’t simply reverted the swing rate could be reduced instead.
I think it’s cute how you say “roll” and not “role”. Like if characters would rock n’ roll. Or they’d roll down a hill.
But then there’s meta and we know that the meta seeks for what is most effective strategy, and the most effective has been an equalized composition that has all those strengths while it covers all those weaknesses you just cited, a comp that can take punishment + have high dps + survive and mitigate damage while not lacking dps + not being a glass cannon + not struggling to take ground and hold it. So the best combination / synergy of hybrid heroes will always be Meta / the most effective in a way that you can always form a composition that can answer to everything (or at least most of it) while also impose a successful threat.
Never said anything against tanks having range or doing minimal damage.
You mentioned Ana, she does only 72.4 damage per second and still counter Pharah, why a tank with a similar damage and range is not an option?
Ana is all about punishment, punishing pharah only if she keeps on attacking, same thing makes sense to me about tanks, if Pharah is gonna play defensive than blocking her is enough, only if she plays aggressively she should be punished by damage as well.
Not really sure what part of it is the joke so sorry if i’m missing anything but either way, the fact a hero has counters doesn’t mean it’s balanced. I never said anything about hog being op as his spread makes him kind of fine outside of hook combos.
But as a tank he’s just a fat dps. No reason at all for tanks to do exactly what dps do and more.
I’m not against tanks being able to do damage but for sure not as much.
Counter pick is something every hero has, even if you let Reaper do 99999 damage per second he’s still gonna have counters from range and utility.
Hog is a fine hero in term of damage output because of spread and lack of protection. But you can’t force tanks being dps and then complain when goats suddenly becomes a thing because of that.
Tanks can be as effective if not more without doing as much damage.
I agree, but if hog is able to one shot heroes how’s he any different?
Hog making space with his hook alone is fair as the focus was on the space itself, no one can use it for kills most of the times. But if you make it so he has the option to focus on kills and still has as much value then he’s a dps not a tank by that deffinision.
It all depends, are you just pulling him to you or killing him with a 1 shot. There’s a big difference. Just pulling him to you is really fine as all you did is change the positioning an enemy. Hammond is all about that, you played around with the space in the reasoning for changing space, but if you do it and then immediately follow up with a one shot combo then in my opinion that’s not ok because you didn’t earn anything from the space but rather from the kill.
The value was from the damage itself.
That part is more about the hook range, if we’re talking range alone idc if it will even be 30 meters, it’s all fine as long that people will use the hook as a repositioning tool for enemies rather than a 1 shot tool.
As I stated, the damage can stay the same, the burst should change. Roadhog already has a spread which makes it so he’s not doing too much damage by just spamming. But the problem with hog is more the one shot combo. I think Hog’s damage per shot should be lowered but increased fire rate in order to balance the damage per second.
If you read my original comment you know I do think some heroes deserve to have their damage stayed and I used d.va as an example because of the same reason- spread. As long that hog’s spread stays the same just nerf the damage per second and increase the fire rate. Not to mention you have to remember the passive… Reaper would have to choose between using wrath form to doing much less damage which resutls in much less healing for Reaper. So it’s not a nerf to hog for sure.
Pretty much the same situation as it is now tbh.
Mei should counter hog, I see noting bad about that. Every hero should have counters. My point in hog now is making sure He can protect his team members, not get kills. If you hook Mei from a team member and save it from a one shot combo even if the match up is not in your favor you still save a team member. Why should hog also one shot Mei as a counter.
What you described as the same as saying Junkrat should also be immune to freezing because he counters mei.
protection, damage and utility are all different things. You don’t have to be a complete counter for someone in order to be considered good. If He can hook Mei away from her target it’s already a big win for him as Hog can not be one shot with a combo.
She has damage resistance, she earns much less ult charge making you a bad choice to shoot at. Not to mention hook combo can still do quite a lot of damage forcing her to recall and/or escape. Even without the kill you still saved a team member, and actually gained more value as Hog’s ult is much weaker than Tracer in term of kill potential so you actually made it so she gains much less ult. And again, if she was hit even once, your hook will kill her. But you can’t be the one to do the first and only step anymore.
In both situations Doomfist survives, the 50 damage per burst difference is not what gonna make Doomfist suddenly better.
He can no longer one shot because of the passive and while being hooked you’re out of ability making the leaving much harder. Hog actually becomes a better counter.
Without his pile drive combo he worth noting. Hook him out of it and you’ve got all the value you need.
And again, same damage-different burst. You’d still be able to deal with the bubble just as good.
Mei & Reaper
The only difference is now he’s more focused on protection rather than kills.
You use hook more to save team members from range rather than searching for kills themselves.
You can talk about his damage as much as you want but it’s a fact rein and Zarya both count as amazing dive counters without having the burst of hog, not to mention Rein has much lower damage output and can still do it well.
What you’re trying to do is force one shots alone just because then your target is safe for sure but because of that you leave the dps no job.
Why is that fine Winston will do so little damage but will need his team to make sure the targets are dead but hog can get a kill by itself alone?
All you need to do is making sure the enemies aren’t denying your team. if they run away it’s not your team problem. Tanks should punish commitment rather than chasing the kills by themselves. If you manage to reposition an enemy and they keep on fighting this should be their problem. The damage should be used for punishment not for the kills.
It’s team based game, you need the dps to help you but you but you can also have an effect by yourself.
If Rein is allowed to rely on protection while doing much less damage but still make divers fear than Hog has no reason to be different.
I guess I didn’t make myself clear and I’m very sorry for not explaining it well enough. It’s just that I wrote it in details so many times that I started making the sentences more short. What I meant was similar to the 3-1-2 experimental card but shorter range for the projected bubble.
That will encourage players to shoot the bubbles more often if Zarya is not too close while also providing the protection needed.
Before, even while playing Soldier:76 or Hanzo you’d fear to shoot Zarya as your team might suffer from her crazy damage, with this change you’d be able to focus the enemy from range without too much fear as the energy is not something mind blowing. But while going dive and trying to catch an enemy with all of bubbles around and the aoe they have, it might be a bit harder not to feed Zarya hard.
I’m going more for a direction that punishes commitment+aoe rather than anything as long that it’s not high ground…
I mostly fear current Zarya just focuses too much on energy rather than punishment so by making the damage lower I make it so she doesn’t have to be on 100% all the time and she can use it more for punishment rather than offense Zarya. But the punishment is harder.
This will be easily countered by long range heroes like snipers,turrets or kiters while also letting brawlers to be a bit stronger on the bubbles as they are usually more defensive.
All of your response is complete nonsense.
You are proposing that he be moved from a bruiser/threat tank to that of a TERRIBLE displacement based tank like wb but with none of the tools needed to do it.
He isn’t a displacement tank. He is a threat based one.
He is already ranked five on the total damage output in the tank role. Redistributing that same damage over multiple shots just makes him worse. Because the entire reason his overall damage is bad is for the purpose of giving him BURST damage. A wet noodle no matter how many times you swing it is just that. A wet noodle.
He would have all the presence of sponge.
Reaper and mei have moderate to high mobility. Nor do they have their potential limited to their cooldowns.
Reaper can close the distance with mobility. Mei has a RANGED attack.
And literaly every single person on the map knows that you are charging your shot becouse sound Q is just absurd
Now I’d say that’s a very bad idea. Anything and everything that discourages generalized playstyle and enforcing a certain hero should be extremely punished by the game and this is something that would actually promote that kind of playstyle since it would eliminate a lot of impactful variety within the roles. In addition it would make the roles considerably more boring and frustrating to play
Overall I’d say that this is a very good idea, if you want to kill the game 
Soldier, Reaper, Mei :bigg think:
Nope. Is a shooter. Different roles still need to shoot and feel effective. Maybe have it be a little harder but everything should have kill potential.
Best OW design due to DPS mains:
5 meatbags\free kills and he “The star or the game”
it’s actually the opposite OP
every role should have characters that can secure elims without relying on teammates
characters in the damage role should just be especially good at dealing damage or securing kills. unfortunately, some dps characters were created as hybrid heroes which has caused them to either being suboptimal or unhealthy in different scenarios since the addition of role queue. additionally, some pure dps heroes who weren’t hybrid became too strong in forced 222 resulting in them getting nerfed for balance reasons (widow).