Everything that isn't a DPS shouldn't do a ton of damage

[Obsidian-21756]

@JimothyJohn-1949

It is not rude to call some ones opinion nonsense. Your opinion is not you. Your identity is not tied to your perspective on tanks.

Doesn’t matter, you show no respect to the person you talk to, mocking his opinion rather than answering the discussion.

@JimothyJohn-1949

It is in the context of a zero mobility, point blank range, cooldown reliant, huge target hero.

So far looking like every other brawl tank…

@JimothyJohn-1949

That is the entire issue. His shotgun only does good damage within a very small area around him. Thus why he needs burst. The window of opportunity to do damage for hog is quite small. Literally only when his opponent is next to him.

I don’t mind decreasing his spread to be able to do a bit more in combat. The point of the changes is what matters, less the results as they are things you can fix easily.
Less spread in exchange for one shot. Moving the power from burst to combat. So the hook works more like a peeling positioning tool rather than a one shot combo. So hogs damage will be used more defensively to fight targets rather than mostly being used for one shots. It would also make him more fun as you would be able to use your gun a bit more efficiently as hog without only waiting for 1 shot chance.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Add on top that the nonsensical idea that 12m’s allows him in any sense of the word to peel for teammates and you have yourself a dead character.

As I stated, I don’t mind keeping it 15 or even increase it to 20 as long that it’s used for positioning rather than one shot combo. Personally I don’t think I ever needed more than 10 meters hook but that’s not what important so for the sake of the discussion sure, keep the 15.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Then why do we need anyone else like hammond? Why get rid of the only pure bruiser tank to make a objectively WORSE version of him?

Because then there’s a factor of play style.
You probably already saw what happens when you try Hammond in a more defensive comp. It’s near impossible getting any value from him and it’s really not his job. Hammond is a diver, he relies on speed and surprise. Hog has noting to do with it, he is more relaxed and works more defensively.
The best example for it is their ultimates, hog pushes enemies away or Hammond enjoy enemies staying where they are.
One steal space from enemies while another keeping his own space for himself.

Hog can help team members from close range without any momentum, and he has enough in his kit to force them to stay. Hammond pushes them back a bit and can’t really do enough to force them to retreat.

Hog provides positioning change and peeling. which works best for non committed close range heroes that zarya woun’t get enough energy or enough time to react in order to punish or do anything really but on the same time the positioning change might mess their plans.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Need peel? Zarya will be better. So will D.va, Winston, Orisa, and Wrecking Ball.

Zarya can’t provide anything without energy forcing her to be hit consistently, she provides noting up close. not to mention some enemies like Doomfist or Hammond don’t bring her a lot of value…
Orisa? 5 meters halt will not gonna give you any real peel. you’re better jumping of a cliff than hoping Orisa will be the one to save you from divers.
D.va,Winston & Hammond- what kind of peel do you expect them to give? People abuse matrix for peeling so I can understand that but personally I’m really against a multy use hero that can be good at any comp as it just makes other heroes much worse since they cannot be that great on others comp… Hog can’t do much on dive so why would D.va be able to be good at his place…

@JimothyJohn-1949

You’ve done a miserable job of explaining any logical reason WHY he should not have offensive capability.

I answered everything you asked for, the reason why I don’t think tanks should have too high damage or kill securing is because all the point roles is to separate heroes. I guess you ignored the start when I stated dps provides noting special if tanks can provide their damage while also having higher hp and protection.

Give me one thing can have but tanks don’t .
Range? Orisa
Mobility? Hammond
One shots? Hog
High damage? Zarya.

You insist on claiming we need bruisers but you as well didn’t explain why we need them.

Overwatch is a team based game, where the point is to rely on your team, every part of the team contribute different stuff.
What reason is there to split the game into roles and more than that, force 2 of each roles if they all do the same thing? You need something to separate the roles from each other.

Just saying that one role has more hp than the others is not enough as you can just make every other dps into a tank from this perspective. When saying support everyone knows they are the ones who heal and provide utility to the team.

So why tanks need to be the same as dps? Having high hp doesn’t really mean a lot so they must have something else…

Now the obvious option is space, but if the tank main focus is kills rather than space than you have no focus on space really. claiming you are responsible for space by kills is the same as saying Reaper is getting space because he can teleport behind enemies and kill them or Or Doomfist can one shot you through shields.

Focusing on space actually means, focusing on space- Being able to step in a place without dying. Ofcourse that if there are no enemies there’s no reason to be scared but that’s what dps do, so instead I think tanks damage should be used to scare enemies, giving them warnings before they get killed. For example Reinhardt, he can’t one shot anyone and he has a very limited range, stay outside of the range and you’ll be fine, but if you’re gonna insist on taking the space he will insist on killing you with enough swings.

The only question that I have for you is what dps can have that tanks are not allowed to have?

For what reason does tanks need dps on their team instead of other tanks with similar abilities?

[FusionPower-2473]

@Asanagi-11663

Tanks shouldn’t make space with damage, supports shouldn’t support with damage, that’s what DPS do. You don’t give DPS the ability to heal their team, or DPS big healthpools, so why do you give every other roles heroes with tons of damage? It’s terrible, feels terrible, supports and tanks shouldn’t be able to delete you like DPS and snipers.

But many DPS just suck. So when they don’t actualy deal damage, someone else must do it. As more, as better.
In a perfect (Overwatch) World, it’s enolugh that DPS heroes deal the damage. But well… Overwatch is far from perfect.

[JonStriker-11942]

@Asanagi-11663

Tanks shouldn’t make space with damage, supports shouldn’t support with damage, that’s what DPS do.

@Asanagi-11663

What i suggest is just a flat like 10-15% damage decrease for everything that isn’t a DPS character. What will this do? Healing will feel slightly more impactful, shields won’t break as fast, the game should move a tiny bit slower.

Here’s the thing, mate. People don’t want to play shield/heal bots and if you lower damage output too much for two out of three roles, You can end up making tanks just gigantic ultimate batteries and supports free kills, because they have little to no means of fighting back.

Yeah, the DPS Mains/OTPs might rejoice, but everyone else won’t want to play the game.

[MegaLopunny-11165]

Tanks and supports do damage but DPS for more damage and more consistent damage.
No need to change anything, I think his point falls flat.

[kongajinken-1805]

How else are tanks/supports supposed to carry matches if they can’t? No reason why only DPS should be the one’s to carry.

[MarioJudah-1384]

uh roadhog sig zen actually have more consistent dps then sombra mei doom

most of the support roster have great dueling potential

[MegaLopunny-11165]

All those named have exceptions like hog needing his cooldown hook or sigs’s DPS being a 1-2 punch projectile. Though kind of strong, isn’t consistent as a soldier, Mcree or Ashe constantly putting down damage. Along that more DPS have more than one damage ability.
They put down more damage per second easier.

[MarioJudah-1384]

nah hogs dps is actually good without hook

@MegaLopunny-11165

Along that more DPS have more than one damage ability.

but I would rather take a tank and support comp that gets dps and even better abilities

[MegaLopunny-11165]

Play hog without hook and see if he’s as good as most DPS. His pick and damage revolves around his hook.
I don’t think that’s really up for Debate.

[MarioJudah-1384]

hog main here, hog is alright at shield break and pressuring tanks, hook is a kill potential cooldown not his only way of getting consistent damage

[MegaLopunny-11165]

DPS normally have better long range options too, meaning they can put down more consistent damage.
Tanks can do decent damage but there is normally a drawback, usually range.
Or being projectiles while hitscan is mostly in the DPS roster

[MarioJudah-1384]

@MegaLopunny-11165

DPS normally have better long range options too, meaning they can put down more consistent damage.

this the hill you wanna die on

@MegaLopunny-11165

Tanks can do decent damage but there is normally a drawback, usually range.

ok

reaper and mei are close range

and yet hog and sig have more sustain options and even better range in a duel

[MegaLopunny-11165]

@MarioJudah-1384

this the hill you wanna die on

It’s a pretty solid hill.

@MarioJudah-1384

reaper and mei are close range

and yet hog and sig have more sustain options and even better range in a duel

Mei being one of the few heroes you never want to close range 1v1
Reaper destroys hog if he misses his all important hook.
Exceptions will always exist but it seems this is a pretty consistent rule.
The heroes with the best long range damage aren’t supports and tanks.