Yeah, tanks are always moving in on the DPS territory. I know people want tanks to be good so people want to play them, but DPS aren’t supposed to be lesser heroes just because they’re popular.
DPS should look in the mirror.
Whenever tanks put up a barrier, DPS whine for nerfs.
Whenever healers heal, DPS whine for nerfs.
Tanks and healers got those nerfs, but then they couldn’t tank or heal, and so they couldn’t do anything. So they got more DPS instead.
DPS can’t have it both ways. You can’t keep asking for tank and healer nerfs, and then expect that tanks and healers be good at nothing. They need to be able to do something, and DPS decided that they should be good at DPS.
11 Likes
This isn’t an RPG. Playing meat-shields isn’t fun.
This is a shooter. Tanks in shooters…deal damage. In fact, more close-range damage than ANY dps in the game usually.
2 Likes
Nerfing damage of every Tank and Support hero = relying much more on your Damage teammates = more throwing potential & imbalance based purely on the performance of two players instead of six.
6 Likes
Be careful for what u ask for the most offensive supports ect usually have a downside.
For example zen alot of damage… Easy to kill.
Probably the most enjoyable hero to kill in the game.
Without his damage he would have to be tuned to be just as difficult to kill as mercy/brig.
Imagine how frustrating it would be as a dps to have 4 players that never have to duel you or fight you and survive with stats constantly evading death
1 Like
Pls play Valorant… or Apex Legend with this mindset…
4 Likes
Well… Ana also doesnt deal head shots…
Hog is more a DPS than a tank… ycratch that… Hog is a DPS.
Zarya needs to build jp her dmg. She is extremly strong with high charge ngl… but still she needs the enemy to shoot her bubbles.
Zen allways did more fmg and utility than healing.
Bap however is one of this heroes that allways felt weird because he can do so many things with little downsides.
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SOLDIER 76 reporting for duty.
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As a DPS player, allow me to explain why you’re wrong bit by bit. Ahem
Why not? Tanks are literally just DPS with large health pools. The only requirement to be a Tank is having a big health pool. Tank doesn’t equal shield.
Again, why not? The Support category includes more than just healing. It’s not the healing category, it’s the support category. The following abilities fit into that category: Healing, shields, armor, turrets. Being a support just means what you can do supports what everyone else can do. It doesn’t mean you have to be weak in the damage department. That’s not a rule of supports.
Soldier.
Bastion.
Because, shocker, if you want unique heroes with unique gameplay they have to be hybrids.
First off, yes a Tank and Support should be able to kill DPS. The only hero a Tank should have immense trouble with are Tank Busters, like Reaper (even though that’s not currently the case). Right now the issue is poor balance on Blizz’s part. If they knew what they were doing, it wouldn’t feel as bad for everyone involved.
This would make every single Tank, who already have crap damage to begin with, pointless. Not to mention that would make support too dependent on their teammates.
Wrong. The problem isn’t the damage being dealt, it’s how little each healer actually heals.
Wrong. Shield busters will still eat through them like paper. Why? Because the shield busters are in the DPS category, i.e. Junkrat and Bastion.
DPS already has a reason to exist. They have shield busters to deal with shields, a tank buster (who, granted can’t do his job currently because Blizz made him too weak) to deal with tanks, a pseudo-healer in Soldier, turrets (which should be a support ability instead of DPS, tbh), snipers, and many other things only they can do.
In conclusion, the problem isn’t the damage Tanks and Supports do (which isn’t much to begin with), the problem is how poorly Blizz balances everything. If anything gets even remotely viable that they or their pros don’t like, it gets nerfed into the ground. As soon as Blizz stops balancing around their eSport scene, and actually hires people who know what they’re doing, the sooner things start feeling better.
4 Likes
game could have still been great if they managed to keep the tanks, dps and healers all the same health level let rein keep shields maybe nerf healing a bit and buff their damage close to the dps’s level. instead we have INFLATED health/shields/barriers/healing WHICH makes them have to give some dps huge burst or one-shot capability… thats not fun
Umm, the game is already like this. DPS do more damage than the other roles.
Here’s the difference in that one. Soldier heals less than every single support. Most supports deal more damage than some of the DPS
The only support that deals more damage than DPS is Zen, and the only DPS below him are Sombra, who is more of a support than a DPS at this point, and Widow and Doomfist, who need some of the lowest damage per kill as they can consistently one-shot.
3 Likes
How much damage does Mei do? Compare that to the gun of any support. Compare the DPS of Mei’s gun to Mercy, Lucio, Bap, and Zen.
Ah yes, I too want to play “Hold button and die for ult charge.”
Hello fellow humans, I am also a human person who has emotions.
1 Like
Mei can freeze and kill pretty much any hero below 250HP.
Unfortunately, she’s picked so little her numbers are broken (40k damage per game).
But to answer your question, Mei’s icicles deal 93.75dps, which is more than Lucio (85.78), but less than the other three. That said, Baptiste and Mercy can’t heal and deal damage at the same time, while Zen’s healing is less than Soldier’s. Mei also has utility and an ability that makes her invulnerable. Last: she has more HP than all of these heroes, while having a smaller hitbox.
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Bap absolutely can heal and damage at the same time. And the idea that they can’t do both at the same time isn’t really an argument. The simple fact is if they DO opt to do damage instead of healing, they do more damage then a DPS and that isn’t even their primary function. Furthermore, Mei’s freeze is SO very unreliable at this point, there’s a reason players don’t tend to use it very much. You’re not counter arguing my claim. You’re bringing up something entirely aside it. The weakest one damage wise, lucio is just barely weaker than Mei.
If he does, he pretty much halves both the values. making him both a bad damage dealer and a bad healer.
Then why don’t they do it ?
Why aren’t supports actually topping the damage charts ?
Simple: because their damage is horrendous.
Mercy’s gun is awkward to aim with at anything out of 10m range.
Ana can’t heal and damage at the same time leaving her team vulnerable.
Baptiste has a similar problem.
Zen’s healing is the lowest in the game so he has to deal damage to contribute.
Lucio’s damage is very low and incosistent.
Moira’s damage is even lower but consistent (and necessary for her to heal).
And Brigitte’s damage is even lower than Moira’s, has less range and is still necessary for her to heal.
Mei, while having low dps, has high burst damage (can OHK Tracer), has CC, the best self-heal in the game and utility.
Your idea that Mei’s damage is bad is the same as saying Widow’s damage is bad. Low dps can be misleading.
How many supports can one-shot ? None. Even Zen’s alt fire is five shots. Yes it is burst damage, and it has very low dps. That’s how it is.
if Bap uses both, he actually gets nearly full fire rate from both. Which is kind of surprising because you wouldn’t expect that.
Supports don’t normally use damage over healing because healing is more valuable than damage. Ergo they use healing over damage even if better. Plus they don’t do more DPS than other DPS, I was giving an example of a character who they do.
You list that Mercy’s gun is awkward to use. Mei’s ALSO is difficult to use. In fact, her right click is arguable the single hardest gun to use in the game due to both a cast time and a cooldown.
I’d argue utility as well, but there really isn’t much case for supports not having crazy utility so I’ll leave it at that unless needed.
And yes, Mei’s damage IS bad. In the scenerio where Mei gets Zarya virtually alone, pressures out her bubble, and ults her. If Zarya so much as has the ‘lowest healing in the game’, Mei can’t kill Zarya with headshots before her ult ends. Even with headshots on every shot.
Mei CAN one shot tracer, but for anything else her gun doesn’t out do virtually anyone. She can’t kill as quickly nor can she shield pressure as much.
Widow’s damage may be low over time, but she one shots the majority cast AND is hitscan. That makes her gun far easier to use than Mei’s.
As far as “best self heal in the game”? That MUST be a joke. Because it has a longer cooldown than Moira’s orb and heals less, a longer cooldown than Hog’s breather and heals less, a longer cooldown than Ana’s grenade… and on top of all of those… Mei can’t move while she does it. So that means other characters can get into position to line up a kill shot while she does it.
If you’re looking at one shot burst, Zen’s alt fire absolutely will get more BOOM, dead kills than Mei’s. But even not counting that, the fact of it is that supports aren’t far at all from the level of killing of most DPS while doing other things.
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Mei reaper and bastion all have more hp than half the cast then they made sym and McCree tankier so they can brawl 76 can heal his team not to mention doomfist when he gets into the groove can have over 300 hp