Okay lets say you pocket a Ashe who can hit shots with a mercy pocket.
Now compare that to a rein zarya combo with an ana giving all effort and nano to the rein. Plus anti nading whoever he comes in çontact with. That rein is a nightmare while that Ashe is still easy to deal with. As long as you harass her. Even if she gets peel you can bully her around the map.
Well, yeah. That’s looking at a duo vs. a trio. If you think about the impact double sniper with a Mercy pocket on them then you’d be looking at something that’s even to a Rein/Zarya with an Ana. Which is one of the many reasons people talk about snipers being oppresive.
At low elo you’re going to have a bit easier time getting value out of heroes with low skill floors (like Rein) and you are also going to get more value out of synergies that don’t take a lot of awareness or gamesense (like Rein/Zarya) so it makes sense these dominate games. I’m saying that this is also happening more because everyone and their mother concentrate on the easy to keep track of tanks. So if the Rein with a Zarya, Ana, and Moira supporting him has more of an impact than the lone Ashe, are we really supposed to be surprised?
Well, not really. I said the Ashe gets peel. So that means one or both tanks are peeling for Ashe. So let’s say a monkey is peeling for that ashe.
She’s still not a big deal. Trio vs trio.
The rein is still able to do whatever he wants just from being a monster. Pair that rein with a oucio. Four.
Give that Ashe another peel with dva.
Reins with three different levels of support is still stronger by a significant margin. You can even give that Ashe a brig as well. Rein with three extra helpers is still the worse threat.
Also, gm. Rein. Zarya. Ana. Bap. Lucio. These five have the highest pick and winrates. Rein zarya with Lucio ana will still run over two tanks with one support even at higher ranks.
Missed that, sorry. But I’d still not see that as equal. There is just not as much synergy between Dva/Ashe/Mercy as there would be with double sniper.
The reason I disagree that Rein/Zarya is better is because I’ve been in a regular stack that runs this combo for years. I currently play the Zarya, but in the past I played mostly Ana for it. When we were in Bronze there was very little anyone could do against a proactive tankline. No one knew how to take off angles and we were just betting on our tanks being better than theirs. Now that we are getting higher on the ladder (gold average but I’ve been as high as the top of plat) it’s not working nearly as well or consistently. Our biggest issue is that we have no verticality and we are really weak against multiple angles.
I’m seeing the opposite trend with my dps games. I also play with a stack for those and it becomes much more powerful to throw an Ashe or Widow into a game where that’s the synergy we are playing around. My aim definitely has improved on hitscan, but it’s also been more successful because my team is getting better at nailing those harder to understand synergies.
So yeah, you could say ‘Oh Ashe is just counterable if you dive her’… but like Rein/Zarya is easy to counter by just using vertical space or literally walking to the side of their shields.
Not much else to say out of highest pickrate tanks and highest winrate tanks plus highest pickrate supports with highest winrate In gm.
It’s the best tank combo right now. With those supports.
Double sniper really isn’t an issue until around masters high diamond anyway.
Rein zarya can still block most damage from high ground with shield and using cover correctly. They have to contest whatever you are on eventually or they just lose. Long range isn’t enough to do anything if their tanks can’t get near you without being ran over.
Why is Rein often considered unplayable in high ranks then? Even with his huge fan base he sits out certain metas. Right now he’s not even considered good in some parts of the ladder without a Lucio.
Also, version 1.0 Mercy wasn’t very good at winning games and had a ridiculously high pick rate in most elos. That has more to say about her accessibility and dedicated fan base than her power level.
Irrelevant. He’s the best tank right now outside of zarya. Buffs and nerfs to certain heroes will make some metas more prevalent. Hes amazing in gm which is what matters right now. We are only talking about gm and even in owl. They had to ban rein so people wouldn’t just play rein.
What are you even talking about? Reinhardt players in GM regularly agree to play Rein/Zarya instead of meta. Yeah, he’s sometimes in meta, particularly on certain maps. But what tank hasn’t? We had like 2 years of Dive (meaning Winston as a main tank) being a must play. We’ve also had Goats (both the Rein and Winston variants) and Double shield (meaning Orisa as MT, not Rein) for ages.
Him being playing in rush right now doesn’t mean Rein/Zarya is OP.
That’s how you have to balance. If four people have high winrates and high pickrates. They need nerfs or other characters need buffs to compensate.
High pickrates are fine because people like to play what they like to play but when you see high pickrates and high winrates. Then balance is off.
dude has 225 hp and flash bang that taxes tanks 300hp for just walking into his range and hes good shield break high damage got an ability to help positioning and an ultimate that isnt even that bad and gets it every fight like how is mccree even in the game
Watch any top tier player get high noon every fight would love to see it.(doesn’t happen)
225 hp is what keeps him from being trash tier.
You get stunned for 0.7 seconds. Relax.
Mccree shield break is awful unless you are literally on top of him and that point you could just kill him for trash positioning.
Lol his roll barely moves him. He’s a slow target who relies on rein to baby sit him and his big fat hit box.
Same stuff they said about Ashe but ashe was good because mercy pocket and constant peel from dive.
are you watching competitive play? im talking about scrims and actual overwatch not that joke of a mode. mccree can literally get high noon every fight with or without mercy pocket
also no 0.7 second if thats true is enough to take a reins hp down from 300 im not joking everyone has seen it happen once it happens its pretty much fight lost for that rein since hes as good as dead
Yes I watch pro play. No McCree doesn’t get high noon every fight even with mercy pocket.
Yes that time is true with fan the hammer but McCree is incredibly vulnerable during the animation if he does it at point blank to a tank.hes dead.
I can’t really put much stock in this. that is a team environment and has no bearing on what actually carries on ladder.
I actually think dps does have the hardest time dealing with tank diff, but main supp has way more impact on the game than main tank.
Main tank without a good off tank has little to no carry potential.
Basically I don’t dispute their findings but that is at a pro level with a team that is coordinating with you. not exactly useful for balancing ladder. I also think balancing ladder is far more important than balancing pro league if you want to actually have a player base
As a tank main I disagree. I agree that tanks have a huge deciding factor in how the team engages but a majority of the time in silver-plat (where I’ve kind of been hovering) is either a tank that’s too timid, a Rein that just can’t play (charge off the map) or the DPS getting outplayed by the enemy’s DPS. If I’m Hog or Winston and kill both healers and you die to their McCree and Hanzo they’re outplaying you. If I’m Rein and have gold damage at 7.5k and 20k damage blocked in the first round their DPS is outplaying you–And so am I for that matter.
Everyone wants to blame someone else but if the tank sets you up and you still get outplayed the tank’s options are to either stagnate and wait for you to wake up and aim or lose. I even get flamed as Hog when I get picks (especially when I pick their Zarya and rush down their Rein) and the team manages to wipe when we outnumber them and their tanks are DEAD. If Tanks were the end-all-be-all why does this happen SO often?
DPS need to realize it’s less on the tanks and more on their ability to play. Running beyond shield or solo flanking and getting caught: “Set up space set up space” Umm… You’re Ashe and haven’t had your ult once and theirs has had it twice… Can you aim? If not, go Torb… He’s pretty good and I’m not even kidding. If I’m here with my barrier protecting you and out DPSing you, what exactly is it that you’re contributing to the team aside from being live bait? The sad thing is this happens often… And although I’m in silver for tank (for now) I placed mid-gold for DPS just goofing around as Torbjorn. The DPS ego trip needs to end lol
So you play tank and then deny you have more impact then the dps on the team.
And no you aren’t outplaying anything as Rein. You are swinging your hammer into large groups and getting all of the teams resources to stay alive.
The support scenario is obviously true but zero percent and I do mean zero. In the ranks you mentioned know how to properly play tank.
Either they are too aggressive and feed.too passive and do nothing or too aggressive and get bailed out by the supports.
Tanks have 75 percent of the impact in all ranks due to tank synergy. That never won’t be true.
Rein zarya lucio ana can literally run over teams with fifty percent less effort than it takes a dps to navigate around the enemy tanks to get picks.
It is quite literally always a dps diff. Who do you think kills the tank?
Quite often the other tanks. DPS aren’t even remotely a threat to tanks on their own. You realize tanks are intentionally designed around completely destroying dps heroes 1v1 and easily surviving 2v1 situations until they get healed, right? Tanks have vastly more control over the match outcome than any other role. They can also synergize with each other better than any other role.
Only tanks can create the offensive pressure required to kill other tanks. Most high level OW matches boil down to supporting and empowering the tanks to create massive offensive pressure and clear objectives with the best team wipe ultimates. There’s a reason that prior to 2-2-2 role lock, the best comp (by a mile) was 3 tanks + 3 supports. It’s almost always tank diff, because tanks have the health and damage output to secure objectives better than any DPS hero.
This is kinda common at low rank games, like in Bronze - Silver where Tanks / Supports can do what ever they want and some Ashe / Widow just dominate game 
But you are right that Tank diff is huge thing, but blaming anyone is not solution, if you want decent team then you should go six stack instead of solo queuee with random players.