Every argument for Widow being fair debunked

The main problem everyone has with Widowmaker is that they can do little to avoid dying to her, because they never fight Widowmaker; they just play the game far away from her, and hope her aim is off.
There’s a lot of arguments saying that she’s fair and balanced, but they’re all terrible:

“Winston deletes her”
FPS games are sometimes designed to have one class optimised to directly engage the sniper, because smart gamedevs realise that extremely good snipers have no counters and automatically ruin the game.
However, this never works, for one simple reason: If an extremely good sniper is hardcountering all but one enemy player, the rest of the sniper’s team is free to protect the sniper.
For this reason, Spy and Winston both end up being shot at by half the enemy team if they go for a very skilled Sniper.
Also, a perfect Widowmaker player will always kill a perfect Winston player in a 1v1, because she can do 500 damage faster than Winston can do 200.

“Stay out of her sightlines”
Widow’s sightlines are literally the entire relevant play area. No, this is a terrible argument even ignoring that Widow has extremely good mobility and can turn up in extremely unexpected places and even land headshots while flying overhead.
Widow players will often put themselves between the enemy spawn and the frontlines to guarantee that staying out of her sight and playing the game are two mutually exclusive things.

“Use shields”
Shields at least make it possible to enter LoS of a perfect Widowmaker player without instantly dying, but it’s impossible to play the game with everyone behind a shield all the time. Stop pretending it isn’t.
Damage heroes leaving cover to fight aside, I’ve seen Widows roam between the objective and enemy spawn to kill respawned players before they can reach a shield. Nothing can be done to avoid that, especially if the Widow is stealthy.

“Move unpredictably”
All this achieves is making a headshot more difficult, it doesn’t guarantee the enemy sniper can’t do it.
Great Widowmaker players will still land a good portion of their shots even if someone is making an effort to be as difficult as possible to headshot whenever they’re exposed to her.

“Flank her”
Unless you’re flanking with your entire team, the whole “Extremely good Widowmaker leaves her teammates with little to do so they protect the Widow” thing applies in the case of a Widow that needs extra special attention to not be killed by. If you are flanking with your entire team, she’ll just reposition so she’s still a threat in the distance.

“Her winrate isn’t that good”
No one who hates Widowmaker cares about this. They want to have fun playing the game, and if they’re often dying randomly to something with no counter, they’re not going to have fun. It’s kind of like playing a racing game with a controller that disconnects every few minutes so you go off a cliff or into a wall.

“She takes skill”
Not exactly; it’s more that she rewards skill very highly. Too highly, and that’s a problem.
If you perfect Brigitte gameplay, congratulations, you’re able to apply mace to the face constantly but you still have a very hard limit on your damage and healing output.
If you perfect Winston gameplay, congratulations, you know exactly who to zap and can land perfectly on them.
If you perfect Widowmaker gameplay, congratulations, you can kill every unshielded enemy in LoS as you soar through the air using your grappling hook.
Clearly, the perfected Widowmaker is incredibly overpowered compared to the other two, and the other two are only relevant at that level of play because of niche team compositions.

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Snipers are a literal class based on control. So it makes sense they are supposed to control a area and play around that they aren’t uncounterable. The idea of a sniper in every game is you play around them and adjust your playstyle to stop them. And snipers are mechanically intensive classes that are supposed to focus on the backline pick them off and leave. That’s like saying roadhog has no counter because hes a tank that can heal himself while oneshotting squishys.

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The question is…what do we do against it?

Nerf her DMG? Her survivability?

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Definitely damage. Specifically, maximum possible damage. 90 base damage, 180 max damage.
She’d need some massive buffs in other areas to balance that out, but it’s the sheer amount of damage snipers do that makes them so broken in all FPS games. In many games you could make them barely mobile, have little health, and only able to fire every 10 seconds, and still simply being able to instakill at any range would make them potentially very powerful.

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So your suggestion is to just make her another ashe? What a great idea

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Every point in your argument is “but a great Widowmaker will avoid this, avoid that, kill you before you get to her” at this point you’re describing forum Widow.


Don’t tell me to swap off Widow,
Coolbreeze

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But any godlike player would be capable of making a game just as unfair. Like a rank 1 tracer will be incredibly hard to kill while being able to destroy a entire team same with most dps heros so should we nerf DPS cause a player whose good enough to beat a counter is unfair?

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She isn’t broken or overpowered in any sense. She offers high reward for high skill, not everyone can JUST CLICK HEADS 4Head. Thats why widow is mostly played in the higher ranks

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Plus the farther she is the harder it is to hit headshots so the better the widow the more range she can play with which makes her high risk/reward

How is this a problem only in overwatch and not every single FPS game that has ever existed…snipers are not a new thing to gaming

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I’m all for every criticism against Widow. I really hate the game where she plays.
I also don’t think she is OP. The problem here is not her, since I agree with all people saying “she doesn what a sniper is suppose to do” But it’s undeniable that games with a decent Widow are not funny for a very big part of the player base.

Widow is indeed counterable with a decent Hammond or Winston or many others like tracer, reaper etc if they manage to go nearby.
But the fact that you are forced to go antisniper on every game (at least this is what happens in QP soloQ) is what makes this game unfunny to me.
I guess the same is on high elos in competitive mode.

So, what could be a solution:
In my opinion a fair solution is a sort of rework or rebalance of Widow.
You can nerf her damage and at least avoid her to headshot 250 characters or even better, 200 characters also but decrease her hook cooldown or improve the machinegun damange.
I’m very aware that she will lose more of her sniper concept, but I think that this game is not made to host pure snipers. It’s really unfunny that you can be oneshotted in 80% of the available map.

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Damn, Forum WidowMaker is now the top tier hero, not even Forum Doomfist can do something against her!

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ForumSym has been OP these past couple of weeks…I think she could give them a run for their money (talking bulk here…the character itself is “UP”)

It’s kinda fun how on these forums people who are against Widow cuz aw too op and bringing up examples of a PERFECT WIDOWMAKER pretty much never encounter this PERFECT WIDOWMAKER in their games.
Stop crying already and L2P.
It’s getting ridiculous how people here are so lazy, they don’t want to move or use strategies against snipers.
If she killed you, she got lucky or she really has the skill. Or you were out of position, which is most likely the case of why you died.
If she’s that OP how you guys claim here, go on and climb with her to higher ranks. Have fun with that.

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Exactly yes, Nerf op dps

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People complain about unbeatable snipers in literally every FPS game that lets snipers have instakills.
The sniper problem is actually relatively mild in Overwatch, usually an aging FPS game with characters like Widow become nigh-unplayable purely due to snipers.
It’s far worse in TF2, because there is literally nothing you can do to not die the instant you enter LoS of Sniper mains who’ve clocked thousands of hours, except hold a specific Heavy melee weapon which will let you survive one fully charged shot.

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I mean…the idea of the game is being able to switch your character based on what you need.
E.Roadhog = Ana
E. Rein = Sombra
E. Pharah = Dva
The idea is to pick around the enemy team and adjust your comp to what you need in that sense your forced to pick someone to counter anyone.

This is irrivelant. I’m not against countering the enemy team’s heroes. I just find the matches with snipers in this game not funny.

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Again thats not because of the hero or anything. Its because thats what the class is based on a class that would make the game worse without. Without snipers the game supports would be a huge issue cause the dps have to kill them while the tank and the rest of the team protect them due to their high priority target value and how valuable to the team are.

Ideally the tank will take the damage for the supports healing them keeping each other alive snipers kill the support tank loses healing DPS can now kill tank.
Also, Snipers are made as a sort of counter to turrets since they can deal massive dmg they can outrange turrets thus they can kill it without taking damage something no real class could do without abandoning their team responsibilities.

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If you don’t like snipers never play a fps… there solved it for you.

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