Every alt corrupts the ladder

I didn’t read all the balogna that this post has generated, but it’ll all come down to Accuracy vs. Precision.

Accuracy is the proximity of a measurement to the true value. SR is not accurate. It fluctuates according to a number of factors that include alts, smurfs, disconnects, attitude, alcohol intake, team comp, etc.

Precision is the degree to which a measurement is repeated under the same cirumstances. As someone who has created and had fun with multiple alt accounts and watched GM’s on smurfs climb the ranks again and again, I can say with some certaintly that the SR system is precise.

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The fact of the matter is people like you kill this game faster than any ult or whatever kind of rigging you like to adopt for why you are where you are.

To top it off, you are no where near below 500, you just decide to be there, because you decide to throw, like throw in a sense that not even me in my drunkest state could throw the way you do.

And you throw on purpose on your stream, where everyone can witness. The only reason why your throwing games did not get any of the popular social media attention is because you do not have enough viewers to get you on the “social media throwing” radar.

You get ignored so much with your theories that you have to succumb to posting on an alt (smth you oh so clearly are against) for your posts to even be seen. I got you on ignored and I thought that those Options got messed up or smth until I realized you were posting on an ult, hence why I could see them.

Apart from what you consider to be issues with this game, whenever you Q comp people are going to get you on their team and will lose because you decided to throw on hero selection screen, you make it so much worse than it actually is. We all have games where we want to bang our heads against the wall and I can at least link 5 high SR games where the same thing happened, same thing that happens in low elos . If I did not see it live on your stream I would not believe it (you throwing games).

People like you ruin every single integrity of this game, prevent Devs from even glancing at this forum and make every single new player who decides to play this game to turn around and not play it.

People like you who are literally Gold border (and this is literally from his stream, he is a Gold border) and are truly not below 500 sr (he most definitely does not play below 500 sr, he is waay better than that, he throws games on purpose) but decided to be there for the sake of the argument deserve to be banned before any of the throwers, cheaters or anything else.

You ruin Comp games and QP games and Arcade QP classic whenever you decide to Q up for any of those.

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How can alts corrupt the ladder if the placement/scoring system is accurate?

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The system can’t increase in accuracy and/or precision with alt accounts, no-resets, and non-adaptive payouts. It’s a system based on live score, effcient mobility (first order conditions), and correct payouts by rank % (first and second order). The issues are coupled and disproportional.

If anything, those examples illustrate that the system is broken (SR is pay-to-win, constant-sum, and there is no real ladder integrity).

But really no one should care about “my bro did xyz” because it doesn’t examine the population as a whole. We have models, scaling laws, and global parameters that do, and they have the final say as to what conditions are actually like.

Because it’s a 2nd order system and accurate 1-shot placements don’t decide if SR is accurately or precisely circulating.

“accuracy vs. precision” lol the arguments from kids that managed grade 10 stats.

What’s the difference between an alt and a new player playing at that level?

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The new players distribute normally. The alts almost surely don’t.

And both enter near the median, imparting disruption until their final destination.

Any other questions? AMA. I’m around for the next 15mins or so than it’s back to teaching kids math.

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Why not? Break it down for me. If they’re playing at the same level, what’s the real difference?

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New players enter the system and must be absorbed. Their arrival is say, Poissonian (maybe it’s Erlang), their steady-state rank distrubtion, say, Gaussian. They enter at the median and impart some disruption until they reach their correct rank (which isn’t actually precise, accurate, or correct but let’s pretend).

All smurfs are alts. The fraction is unknown. The best-case, min-disrupt scenario is that:

  1. All alts are perfect clones of some main (no smurfing, A=1).
  2. People who use alts are uniform by rank (hardcore and high ranked players don’t alt more or less than casuals and low ranks, B=1).
  3. The number of alts per person is rank uniform (hardcore players don’t have more or less alts, C=1).

Even if 1,2,3 hold perfectly (it’s almost impossible for this to be the case) - you have at least as much disruption as new players. So the statement ‘every alt corrupts the ladder’ is valid. Because we don’t periodically reset or adapt SR payouts by population.

But you can actually make data-free arguments on (2) and (3) that show how hard it is to achieve B,C = 1, and how k>0 entrants into the system actually force B,C to become lower (again, because of how the ladder saturates with SR).

But this is just a thought experiment. We already have countless evidence that shows A<1 (smurf to alt ratio), and with reasonable threshold arguments you could bound some lower values for B,C (who uses alts and how many).

Very quickly, the disruption imparted by duplicate accounts (alts) increases faster than new players. Recall, pumping SR into a ladder causes inflation (with geometric dissipate) and encourages constant-sum, pay2win equilibria to emerge, that effecitvely punish and tax the lone-account player.

Mobility gets harder, your rank becomes less meaningful, you have more usurped games, SR no longer tracks skill scarcity just account winrates (which are changed by alt saturation), and Scott is happy calling it an esport.

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It already is free to make smurf accounts on consoles.

By “super fun” you mean “they get to stomp typically lower ranked players without having to actually throw down to lower ranks”.

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I didn’t read the novel, but I’m going to bet it doesn’t explain how two people playing at the same level are somehow different. Because they aren’t. Fix the placement/scoring system if it’s an issue. If it’s not, then everyone is where they should be. Smurfs included.

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I already explained this several times. It doesn’t seem to be reaching the gamer minds so here it goes again:

number of accounts > unique players

If you bloat the distribution with repeat accounts but label things by % players, you are imparting a false SR mapping. No person should be allowed to gain, lose, bank, trade, earn, dispose of duplicate amounts of SR without some zero-sum recalibration to the % players.

New players have a small disruption effect but that’s the cost of doing business. Alts impart ~O(n2) levels of disruption and create all kinds of systems effects we can maybe try to discuss next semester.

Until then please accept the knowledge.
And build a boat for the coming flood.

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You can type another 1,000,000 words, but it doesn’t change the simple facts I’ve already laid out.

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Yes, thats exactly my point. Low ranked players wouldn’t like it at all because they’d just get curbstomped because of it. Imagine how much worse it would be if people didn’t even need a different account to derank? Every season they could get pushed back to 2500 and just climb back up to GM, and then get to do it allllll over again. MMR resets would be really dumb.

You’d be creating smurfs out of people who had 0 intentions of doing so.

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You’re forgetting that a reset entails global placements. Actual placements. A reset is much different than re-seeding how you finished last season, or bringing a new account into a fully developed structure.

It doesn’t work like that. They would have to throw placements which tells you there is a smurf/alt problem that needs to be solved before you can truly solve rank structure.

A reset entails placements that form winner/loser brackets. It sieves and partitions players back to where they belong within a few matches, and the mismatch “disruption” decreases ~O(lg(N)) in the number of matches played.

So no, that GM would have to throw, placements would be fast and relatively painless. You would get back close to where you belong, and where you belong would be more calibrated for active/live 2021 playerbase.

Chaos wouldn’t suddenly exist where it never did before. And throwers/alts should be sparse encounters, uniform and balanced out in a large population of true mains (unless they have fundamental problems regarding the population and alt % they’re not telling us about).

Unless you’re changing something, than no, an MMR reset would place everyone gold. Do you not remember season 18?

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It would seed their first placement match at ~2350.
That is not “placing everyone gold.”

It takes ~14 matches to place N=10,000 players to within a 200sr resolution.

Try again.

They know but they prefer that new accounts money over the competitive experience

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Not in Blizzards control though, you have to make a new profile on the Xbox.

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Blizzard can control it, though, by forcing linking to a Battle net account (just like you have to do on PC).

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