Emongg: "Every sort of sniper needs a nerf if 3-1-2 happens"

When he says snipers does he mean only Hanzo/Widow or does that include Ashe too

As a Hanzo main I wouldn’t mind if 1-shots were exclusively ability based and no normal primary could 1-shot but both heroes would have to receive reworks to give them such an ability.

Widow for example could gain an overcharge ability that allows her to deal 1-shot damage on her primary for a short amount of time.

Hanzo could receive a rework to his Storm, maybe it fires just 1 arrow but it is super fast and deals normal damage (full 125/250).

So why are we assuming 1-3-2 is 100% going to be put into QP and comp?

That’s my question.

Hadn’t thought about this, but it’s a great point. Suppose these changes went live. They’d either make QPC a mess or they’d have to have two sets of stats for characters, which isn’t a good idea long term, especially with pve also becoming a consideration eventually

It’s blizzard, so the worst is always assumed. Also we’re morons.


There’s a pretty high chance it will be despite being experimental since Blizzard goes back on very few changes anyway.

While I agree, I think people need to be informed on WHY snipers are strong before they go around nerfing them.

Double sniper is strong because the (presumably) Widow and Hanzo can soft flank to either side of a teamfight and create a kill zone that their tank core can corral the enemy tank core with, and it looks roughly like a ‘U’ with the bottom of the ‘U’ being the double snipers’ tank core.

With a third sniper (I’m assuming Ashe) you can have one of your snipers (preferrably Hanzo because he is better against flankers) pull a hard flank on the enemy and change the ‘U’ into an ‘O’ with every engagement, and you don’t even need to corral the enemy team to get the kill zone.

The nerfs that would counter such a playstyle would likely either reduce sniper’s ability to deal with flankers, who can threaten or kill a sniper and change the ‘O’ back into a ‘U’. Or reduce the sniper’s mobility so that it is much harder to reform the ‘O’ if one of them gets dislodged.

This wouldn’t take away sniper’s one-shot capabilities, which is integral to their core design, but it would still nerf them in such a way that triple sniper isn’t as strong.

That is true for PTR changes, but they stated over and over again in the dev update that this was just taking an interesting idea and seeing how it would play out if it were implemented.

Jeff even said they didn’t want to put this on the PTR so people wouldn’t freak out that this would be going live.

And yet here we are.


Yes but Activision is there to keep them in check…:clown_face:

It’s amazing how despite Jeff stating numerous times how it’s just a highly experimental idea, not to panic, etc, that people are still screaming about how it’s going to ruin the game as if these changes are going to go live in a couple weeks.

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It’s almost like…without a Second Tank people are not protected enough…huh

Ashe should be ok because she has to stay closer to the front and is reasonably counterable by a few different DPS.

Well actually having play experience in 132 that is very obvious. Too much damage coming in.

In my first game Widow got 4 headshot kills in a row.

So I don’t see any difference really.

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The bigger issue is that you can’t have a barrier tank that protects the team and a dive tank at the same time. Also, your solo tank can’t really go running all over the map to chase Widowmaker like a second tank could before.

Ashe was borderline useless, or at least her dynamite was, against Zarya. Like… Damn. You gonna let me burn it all down?

Well, you can’t get away with much dynamite, but there’s no barrier so you can doink heads.

I’ve seen most of the tanks so far. Sigma can’t keep up with the angles from 3 DPS swarming around like bees and Orisa did ok but you have to just full baby sit 100% and high odds you have nothing to clear the high ground or stop players from roaming a bit juuuust a bit away.
Like normally you would just send over the bulk off tank to push door + maybe one DSP on say Blizzard world to punish a DPS player over there.
but now you can’t and if it’s DPS going, it’s an even fight more or less. Rewarding that bad positional play more than it should.

1-3-2 also sort of just guts support play being there isn’t really a true front line and then some depth to the backline.
You either hard turtle wit the tank or they die and/or you get ran over. It’s just really strange in game play.

Part of the reason Goats and Shield Metas became so prominent was due to the high sustain and blocked sight lines, thus reducing the threat of one shot kills from characters like Widow and Hanzo. The one shot kill mechanic from far away has always been stupidly overpowered in this game. And, even while running 2-2-2, it could be very difficult to deal with without structuring your entire team around diving the sniper to eliminate them early. Even then, double sniper comps usually were able to pick a few of your team off while you were still killing the first sniper.

There are a ton of problems with 3-2-1, but the biggest is that you’d need to nerf a lot of the dps roster for it to work. The dps like 3-2-1 because they want to play the damage characters with outputs calibrated for the current gamemode without the barriers of the current gamemode so they can get easy kills. That’s not sustainable. So it’s either dps all do less damage as a whole (which they will complain about) or we don’t do it.

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